TWG LXII: This Post-Game Is Encouraging When It Comes To Trashing the Host

[Thiannon]

Well, I have a few minutes this morning, so I'll post a few of my comments.

First off, my wolf strategy is not particularly sophisticated: I usually just act the way I think I would as a human. This has a number of obvious benefits, but it also has drawbacks, for example, if my partners look wolfy (I have to target them) or if everyone else looks human (I'm not about to make stuff up). I also don't really plan wolfings in advance or communicate all that much with my partners. I think FA and I did a nice job playing off each other this game despite all of these factors, though (and we actually did PM each other a fair bit).

Re: the missed wolfing. It was accidental, of course. I would never, ever miss a wolfing deliberately, and the fact Bird was reluctant to accept that was great because it meant I could hammer him on trying to invent implausible "wolf-behaviour" for me. It arose because of the weird phase-end: when Waddle put the game up around noon, I assumed, as usual, that the phase would end the next evening, not realizing he was on European time. FA and I exchanged a couple PMs the first day, culminating in a last exchange that night in which I asked him who he wanted to wolf. He sent me some suggestions, but I had a breakfast date the next morning and didn't have time to check NSM, and I didn't have Internet access again until that evening. By that point, of course, the night was over, FA likewise hadn't PMed, and we missed the wolfing.

Re: Nakah's reroll suggestion. I know he hasn't played in a while, but that was a pretty dirty move. It would be pretty unsportsmanlike for a TWC to miss the wolfing and then request a reroll as a wolf, so this gambit effectively confirmed him as a human, and we basically had to wolf him the next night. Future reroll requests by anyone should probably be PMed to the host (and CC'd to non-playing TWC). Additionally, I think replacements should probably be made at phase end. I'm kind of iffy on replacements in general; for one thing, I think they encourage inactivity by non-replacement players (you can sign up for a game you might not have time to play and even afford to be inactive knowing you'll be replaced). But switching them out during phase-end would work to eliminate this sort of game-structure-analysis problem in the future.

Re: Bird's phase extension request. Again, this essentially proved his humanity. Personally, I'm not a fan of pulling this stuff as a wolf. I "analyzed the syntax of Waddle's update" because dammit, if the humans are going to play dirty, so am I. And perhaps this is and should be part of the game. I think it's something that needs to be discussed, though. Again, Bird's request should have gone directly to Waddle, and, more generally, all game mechanic questions should probably be PMed to the host. It takes only marginally more effort to do so, and he can clarify them publicly if necessary.

Re: balance. The game was probably slightly wolf-sided, but certainly playable, and I agree that the mechanics did increase activity. I'd play a game like this again. Thanks for hosting, Waddle!

Re: the night-end rule. It's stupid. Change it.

[Waddle Bro]

Finally got my hands on a legit computer, so I'll get working on this post game, but most likely won't finish it this weekend!

more generally, all game mechanic questions should probably be PMed to the host. It takes only marginally more effort to do so, and he can clarify them publicly if necessary.

This is something I really want to become as a rule.

thiannon 4 twc

[Bird]

Additionally, I think replacements should probably be made at phase end. I'm kind of iffy on replacements in general; for one thing, I think they encourage inactivity by non-replacement players (you can sign up for a game you might not have time to play and even afford to be inactive knowing you'll be replaced). But switching them out during phase-end would work to eliminate this sort of game-structure-analysis problem in the future.

I thought this wasn't a replacement, but a mistake by the host. I think that Nakah had originally signed up before NocturneofShadow, but for some reason Waddle overlooked that and included Nocturne in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyway. Most of the time, replacements are done between phases.

Re: Bird's phase extension request. Again, this essentially proved his humanity. Personally, I'm not a fan of pulling this stuff as a wolf. I "analyzed the syntax of Waddle's update" because dammit, if the humans are going to play dirty, so am I. And perhaps this is and should be part of the game. I think it's something that needs to be discussed, though. Again, Bird's request should have gone directly to Waddle, and, more generally, all game mechanic questions should probably be PMed to the host. It takes only marginally more effort to do so, and he can clarify them publicly if necessary.

Hosts should just never give phase extensions in the first place (unless it's like a holiday or something). Problem solved. And game mechanic questions being PM'd to the host is a nice idea, but I don't think it's ever going to happen. If players are talking to one another in a chatroom, questions about the mechanics of the game are naturally going to arise, and I don't want to put artificial restrictions on whether they're allowed to publicly talk about them.

I think playing dirty is an integral part of TWG, and I think the list of rules would become incredibly long and unwieldy if the TWC tried to ban every tiny trick people use to look more human. I talked about this a bit in the most recent LLF TWG. As long as the tricks can be used by both sides, it's not an issue.

Re: the night-end rule. It's stupid. Change it.

I disagree.

You know what's even stupider than the night-end rule? Having knife-in-the-box after knife-in-the-box since the wolves have the same number of players as the humans. The wolves almost always win in those situations anyway, and if they don't then you're letting the outcome of the game depend on chance rather than gameplay. People can avoid games where it's beneficial not to wolf by starting with an odd number of players/forcing the wolves to wolf every night phase.