[PC] The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall - "General Shop" by Atcero

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Other
Game: The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall
Console: PC
Title: General Shop
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Atcero

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[Atcero]

This thing has a few different names on the internet but the original music files are called "GSHOP" which means General Shop. If this name needs to change thats fine though.

[Kricketune54]

Skimmed a bit:

-Key should be in A minor for this one (no flats)
-Think you forgot to put the tempo on this one
-m18 and m22 RH take staccato off beat 1 first note
-m23 RH take staccatos off, I think you can put an accent on beat 2.5.
-m28 beat 4 RH is a triplet for those three notes
-Not sure if you also want a repeat for this one

[Atcero]

I did forget the tempo, thanks for that!

In terms of the key, I had it as A but as I checked the original midi file as a final pass, it has it all in D Minor. I might just do what I had and have it in A minor then switch to D minor at m18.

For m28 beat 4, its oddly not a triplet in the original midi (which does have triplets in other parts so its not a conversion error). Its something funky so I chose the one that sounds the closest to the original but its not a triplet for some reason (it shouldve been for composition purposes tho i agree).

The staccatos on 23 I'll def check out tomorrow and prob update the file tomorrow.

Repeat I'm not sure either, it sounds like it ends enough where it doesnt need one imo but if it needs one i can add it.

[Atcero]

I got this updated! you were right about the staccatos in m18 and 22 so i got rid of those on the first note. With that, I did keep the weird not a triplet thing in m28, but if it is easier to switch to a triplet i can change that of course.

I also did do A minor and then switched to G minor on m. 18.

[Zeila]

I wrote this out before I read the previous comments so some suggestions are duplicates

• m1/2/5/6 RH beat 2 should be staccato'd
• m2/5/6 LH beat 4 eighth note shouldn't be staccato'd; in measure 6 specifically, beat 3 eighth note shouldn't be staccato'd either
• m4 RH beat 1 the bottom layer should be a dotted quarter note followed by G-A as sixteenth notes to lead into the B on beat 3
• m5 RH beat 1 it would be nice to add the A from the other layer here to close off that phrase
  
• m7 RH beat 1 F on the second layer should be A
• m8 LH last eighth note should be B instead of E
• m9 LH all the notes here are wrong; it should follow a similar pattern to measure 8, but it's centered around Bb instead (it looks like you copied it from m13?)
• m11 RH second layer G should be a half note and then A and G should be the following quarter notes on beats 3 and 4 respectively
• m14 RH beat 4 second layer should be G instead of E
• m15 LH last eighth note sounds like it's G instead of F, but I'm not completely sure
• m16 RH beat 1 G should be B
• m17 LH missing G (same octave as the G in the previous measure)
• m18/19/22 LH beats 1.5-2.5 sound like they could be staccato'd
• m23 RH no staccatos here
• m25 RH if you want to include more of the harmony, there's also a G present
• m27 RH you could replace the G with the other layer that goes G (for a dotted half note) and then A; then in measure 28 it goes Ab for a dotted half note and then G
• m28 RH the melody does a triplet on beat 4 instead of what your wrote out; also you could add an Eb to the first part of it
• m30 LH beat 4 should be Eb-D instead of D-F
• m31 RH beat 1 idk if you'd want to include this but there's also a G playing like in m27 (except you'd just write it under the half note only)
• m32 LH beats 3.5-4.5 should be B-G#-F# instead of E-B-Ab (and the other flats should be sharps since it's an E major chord)
• last measure - I put mp here but you could change it to a different dynamic; also you were missing a repeat marking

I also adjusted the margins, page size, and system sizes/spaces (e.g. changed the size to 0.70cm and the spacing from 0.88" to 1")
[MUS]

[Atcero]

Warning: I will be referencing the OG midi a lot since its not only the original and legal version released by Bethesda, its also already in midi format for computrons. It was also my last quick checklist for verification but I did miss quite a few things.

m1/2/5/6 RH beat 2 should be staccato'd

I disagree on this. When I listen to it, I don't hear the harpsichord staccato'd at all. When I check the OG midi, it looks like the violins are staccato'd but I don't hear those personally so for this I'll be sticking without the staccato's unless someone else hears them more prominently.

m2/5/6 LH beat 4 eighth note shouldn't be staccato'd; in measure 6 specifically, beat 3 eighth note shouldn't be staccato'd either

Agree minus the m5 one. I hear that one staccato'd still but not the other two.

m4 RH beat 1 the bottom layer should be a dotted quarter note followed by G-A as sixteenth notes to lead into the B on beat 3

I do not hear this, and not sure if youre hearing it with the harpsichord, horn, or strings.

m5 RH beat 1 it would be nice to add the A from the other layer here to close off that phrase

I agree, a half note with the A does sounds a lot better.

m7 RH beat 1 F on the second layer should be A

I went with the horn on this one and it is an F for it. If I went with the strings, it would be an A though. I am fine doing a F-A-A chord followed by a G-B-G chord, but not just a F-A-A as the G Octave chord after sounds hollow when compared to the F-A-A.

m8 LH last eighth note should be B instead of E

Relistened to it and checked it against the midi, it is an E.

m9 LH all the notes here are wrong; it should follow a similar pattern to measure 8, but it's centered around Bb instead (it looks like you copied it from m13?)

You are right, it is a Bb instead of D. I didn't copy it as I work in order, but some of the starting notes were tricky (which I based the rest of the phrase off of since theyre pretty repetitive)

m11 RH second layer G should be a half note and then A and G should be the following quarter notes on beats 3 and 4 respectively

I don't hear this and checking the midi i am not seeing an A for beat three. For the horn, which I used, it looks like its a dotted half then repeats the G.

m14 RH beat 4 second layer should be G instead of E

You are right, it shouldve been a G. I still kinda hear an E but im also banging against a piano trying to hear some notes at times over the youtube video.

m15 LH last eighth note sounds like it's G instead of F, but I'm not completely sure

Double checked and it is an F (mistyped G before).

m16 RH beat 1 G should be B

You are correct, it should be a B.

m17 LH missing G (same octave as the G in the previous measure)

You're right, but I didn't even hear it personally when I did this sheet. I'll defer to a second opinion for this one as well since it is a bit low and I have it currently as a hand over hand. If it should be added, I can def change it and get rid of the hand over hand and have the lower G.

m18/19/22 LH beats 1.5-2.5 sound like they could be staccato'd

Agreed, they should be.

m23 RH no staccatos here

Agreed

m25 RH if you want to include more of the harmony, there's also a G present

I love yet despise how it sounds, but youre right. Pretty faint for me but I'll shove it in there for now.

m27 RH you could replace the G with the other layer that goes G (for a dotted half note) and then A; then in measure 28 it goes Ab for a dotted half note and then G

I think this might be the wrong measure number as there is no G in this measure for the RH lol.

m28 RH the melody does a triplet on beat 4 instead of what your wrote out; also you could add an Eb to the first part of it

Rechecked the midi, the strings do a triplet but ill post a pic of what the harpsichord (Kind of what I hear) does. It's hella funky

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m30 LH beat 4 should be Eb-D instead of D-F

I still heard what I wrote so I double checked midi and it should be G-D. That part is really really muddled

m31 RH beat 1 idk if you'd want to include this but there's also a G playing like in m27 (except you'd just write it under the half note only)

Still not sure which G youre talking about and if I was on discord id use emojis to convey im not trying to be argumentative, but alas this is forums

m32 LH beats 3.5-4.5 should be B-G#-F# instead of E-B-Ab (and the other flats should be sharps since it's an E major chord)

Thank you, I have trouble with accidentals but it also seems like musescore already had those so no idea on that one for finale.

last measure - I put mp here but you could change it to a different dynamic; also you were missing a repeat marking

I purposefully left out the repeat as I'm not sure the full rules on those and imo it's better without it as it seems like a cohesive piece without needing to repeat. If there is a thing where "repeat whenever it repeats" I'll add it then.

Thank you so much for going over it! It's a lot of crossing tones cause I had to relisten to some parts 7-8 times just to make sure it was correct for some parts.

[Zeila]

I do not hear this, and not sure if youre hearing it with the harpsichord, horn, or strings.

I hear it on the horn part

You're right, but I didn't even hear it personally when I did this sheet. I'll defer to a second opinion for this one as well since it is a bit low and I have it currently as a hand over hand. If it should be added, I can def change it and get rid of the hand over hand and have the lower G.

I think what's written in the RH is doable for just that hand, but a second opinion is fine too

I think this might be the wrong measure number as there is no G in this measure for the RH lol.
Still not sure which G youre talking about and if I was on discord id use emojis to convey im not trying to be argumentative, but alas this is forums

Sorry, I can't read... I meant B instead of G. This is what I heard
You cannot view this attachment.

Rechecked the midi, the strings do a triplet but ill post a pic of what the harpsichord (Kind of what I hear) does. It's hella funky

Spoiler

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I noticed that the harpsichord did some other funky rhythm, but I just thought the strings were more prominent. It's okay with me if you want to write it the way you currently have it then

Thank you, I have trouble with accidentals but it also seems like musescore already had those so no idea on that one for finale.

That's really odd. I've only encountered notational/enharmonic changes during imports when it comes to tabs

I purposefully left out the repeat as I'm not sure the full rules on those and imo it's better without it as it seems like a cohesive piece without needing to repeat. If there is a thing where "repeat whenever it repeats" I'll add it then.

I think people here tend to put repeats as the default if it does repeat in game. I guess with a name like "General Shop" it could be implied anyways though if people wished to play it multiple times. Technically it would be more accurate to show it, but I don't think it's a set rule

Thank you so much for going over it! It's a lot of crossing tones cause I had to relisten to some parts 7-8 times just to make sure it was correct for some parts.

You're welcome! I know that feeling too... especially when the sound is muddled. I also tend to do a bunch of small errors so I just take breaks in between edits

Also, when you updated measure 5 to include the horn, it added a whole rest to measure 6 too that should be taken out. I also think it would look neater if you hid the half rest in measure 5 and flipped the stems (which you might be able to do in Notepad with the shortcuts 'h' for hiding, 'L' for flipping beams, and 'f' for flipping articulations), or you could just re-export it from MuseScore.

[Atcero]

Got it all updated, thank you! Yeah I forgot to take a look at the 2nd layer rests, and there were a few triplets in from the horns I really didnt want to include in at first but they do sound better in it. Thanks for all your help!

[Latios212]

Hi! Here's some feedback in addition to some of the spacing stuff we discussed yesterday. This stuff is adjusted in the file I'm providing at the bottom:
- Staccatos should go above the notes in m. 5 (similar to m. 6)
- (formatting thing) Expression text should generally be created using the Expression Tool instead of the Text Tool so it moves along with the staff it's attached to
- I think that "l.h." in m. 17 might be better above the whole note instead of kind of to the left of it?
- Removed stray staccato in m. 23 beat 2.5

Things for you to think about that I didn't change yet:
- Big stretches - you have some tenths here in m. 3, 7, and 28 here. The one in 3 is kind of reachable by stretching but the other two, not so much. I'd suggest either dropping/raising the lowest note or adding a roll marking in these places.
- I think I'm hearing a D (to write as a whole note?) in the lower layer of m. 11 instead of G's
- m. 15 RH beat 4 should have an A quarter note in the lower layer (bridges the gap between the G and B)
- Think about what you want the accompaniment to do in m. 16-17 - you have no pedal indicated here so the ascending eighth notes wouldn't have anything sustained. It sounds like the original sustains a B in the left hand, so maybe consider tying it over or indicating pedal for these couple measures.
- Gonna agree with Zeila here, I think m. 28 beat 4 would make more sense as a triplet in the melody. That's what it sounds like from a listening standpoint to me

I purposefully left out the repeat as I'm not sure the full rules on those and imo it's better without it as it seems like a cohesive piece without needing to repeat. If there is a thing where "repeat whenever it repeats" I'll add it then.

We should notate where things repeat in the game itself even if it's something that can end. You can simply slip a D.C. on at the end to notate that you can start over from the beginning. (Also, for this piece in particular, that E major chord at the end resolves really nicely to A minor at the beginning )

Lastly... I'm not sure if one flat is the best way to set the key signature for the second page. We should check with someone else on that.

Here's the file. Let me know if you want help adjusting things in Finale to avoid messing up the formatting that's in place. https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5y5ugw69x1r560/General%20Shop.mus?dl=1

[Atcero]

I got everything we talked about in the discord changed.

For Finale however, I was not able to add the D.C. or the roll to the m28 chord. If you could get these two I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for all your help and I'll post the same version next time

[Latios212]

Cool, got the files updated and approved!

For whoever checks this next:
- Need input on the keysig on page 2
- I was going off of the one listed in Atcero's first post but this one is clearer: https://youtu.be/CqUCz7E1s90?t=2601

[Libera]

Checking time:

-Hearing an F# on beat 2.5 of bar 26 and 30 (LH) rather than Fn.
-Last three left hand notes of 32 sound like B -> G# -> F# to me.
-Anywhere where you have an onbeat quaver followed by a staccato quaver (8th notes) then I'd recommend using a slur between them.  It helps to make the articulation obvious and also makes it clear that it isn't a mistake.  This applies in 18-19, 22 and 6.
-Any reason to omit the Bb in the right hand of 31?  You had it in 27.
-I cannot for the life of me hear the A and B you wrote in for beats 1 and 3 in bar 7.
-The roll in bar 28 is pretty awkward.  Do you really gain that much from having the F an octave lower?  I think it'd be better to just omit the second layer there, personally.  It'd be much easier to play and would you wouldn't really lose anything.

- Need input on the keysig on page 2

Personally, I wouldn't write this second page in Dm for two reasons.  1. It only stays in Dm for 8 bars so I don't think it's worth it; 2. I'd say it's actually pretty debateable whether it even goes to Dm at all.  If I was going to any key change here it would probably be to Gm since that fits far more of the second page than Dm (raised sixth is very common in minor keys, hence the Ens in 18 etc.).  But even then I think I'm more prone to just getting rid of the key change, since it goes back round to Am at the end and I think it's fine to view this as a secondary passage that doesn't really warrant a new key signature.

[Libera]

Talked with Atcero on discord and updated the files myself.  Accepting!

[Zeta]

This submission has been accepted by Libera.

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