TWG CXX: Lynch the Grynch Game Thread

[SpecsFlyer17]

Another thing we have to consider is if the Grinch's power effects parity. For instance, if it was F3 and one of the townies had their vote removed, most hosts would call it as a wolf victory. Unless you're willing to determine the outcome of the game on a coin flip, can anyone clarify what the standard for this site is?

I dug around the rules and couldn't really find anything on the matter.

If we do find ourselves in a Final 3/4 situation where the best possible outcome for the town is a KITB, my initial thought is have that be a wolf win, given that there is only one wolf in the game. Keep in mind that Santa does have that one-use nice list add while dead, which partly exists to at least attempt to prevent a situation like this from happening.

If anyone here has seen this situation on NSM, feel free to post about it briefly or PM me.

I'll give it a bit more thought though.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Seriously, where is everyone? Why have half the people not shown up when the phase is effectively more than halfway over (given the lack of people who are typically up at this hour)

If I had to make a guess:
- Toby and Xiao are European so probably didn't realize the game had started, were/are asleep, and should hopefully be awake within the next few hours.
- THC is American but usually works night shift (IIRC) so he'll hopefully be on soon as well.
- Math? idk

Although even that is assuming an F3 can't be jeopardized by the Grinch's Naughty List. We're probably going to have to assume that we have only two lynches in the entire game.

It'll be good to keep that in mind then.

Also: if the specials are ever in danger of being lynched, they should claim, but likely shouldn't claim otherwise unless we know it's going to be our final lynch.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I dug around the rules and couldn't really find anything on the matter.

If we do find ourselves in a Final 3/4 situation where the best possible outcome for the town is a KITB, my initial thought is have that be a wolf win, given that there is only one wolf in the game. Keep in mind that Santa does have that one-use nice list add while dead, which partly exists to at least attempt to prevent a situation like this from happening.

If anyone here has seen this situation on NSM, feel free to post about it briefly or PM me.

I'll give it a bit more thought though.

From a TWC perspective:
Off the top of my head I can't recall any games that encountered (or could potentially have encountered) a similar situation, since in most cases wolves having vote parity with the humans would end the game with a wolf victory regardless. However, like Oricorio mentioned, my initial inclination would be to have it be a wolf win since it fits in the spirit of wolf parity.

[therealmathguy]

Howdy y'all

Will we know if we're on the naughty list? Either way, we'll have to watch for some unusual voting patterns

[davy]

So greens aren't 100%. Still, that scenario does seem rather unlikely.

In that case, more caution is required. If Rudolph claims to a green, there is a chance that we are throwing the game because the green player claims to the topic and is believed to not be the Grinch and they can win on the basis of that alone.

I might be misreading this, but what you're saying is that it's not worth one of the specials claiming to set up an alliance? That makes sense, and if that's the case I agree with you there, but just wanted to clarify.

Correct, having one of the specials claim and losing them to a wolfing is not worth the alliance we can setup from there.

Like both Davy/Oricorio have said, since there isn't any way for a player to be made red (only the Grinch can chance color if he hits Santa), if we get a red seering that's our best bet for a lynch. If Rudolph gets a red seering it may be worth it for Rudolph to contact a random player they trust to reveal the red seering instead of revealing the results themselves—since there's only one wolf there shouldn't be any false claiming shenanigans (and if the player they claim to is the Grinch, Rudolph would die either way).

I like this idea, gives us quite the chance that Rudolph will survive if the red seering isn't the grinch.

Anyway, half the people still haven't showed up, but it's never too early to start making reads. TZP just posted once and then completely dipped, what gives? GTH wolf. Same with davy, really, although his post at least has a bit more content even if it's still very milquetoast.

I noticed the game had started late in my evening, made a post, then went to sleep before seeing your reply. But I'm awake now, and will be able to be active for the rest of the phase.

[davy]

I dug around the rules and couldn't really find anything on the matter.

If we do find ourselves in a Final 3/4 situation where the best possible outcome for the town is a KITB, my initial thought is have that be a wolf win, given that there is only one wolf in the game. Keep in mind that Santa does have that one-use nice list add while dead, which partly exists to at least attempt to prevent a situation like this from happening.

If anyone here has seen this situation on NSM, feel free to post about it briefly or PM me.

I'll give it a bit more thought though.

From a TWC perspective:
Off the top of my head I can't recall any games that encountered (or could potentially have encountered) a similar situation, since in most cases wolves having vote parity with the humans would end the game with a wolf victory regardless. However, like Oricorio mentioned, my initial inclination would be to have it be a wolf win since it fits in the spirit of wolf parity.

So the standard win con for wolves as described in the basic guide is acchieve parity with humans. This used to be outnumber the humans, and there was quite some debate between the then TWC about whether changing it to the current win con would be more in spirit of the game (on the one hand, leaving the win to a coin flip isn't very fun game design, on the other, the wolf team can play smart by skipping a wolfing to prevent that situation).

Hosts are always free to change the win cons for their own games. In case that there are any rules that change the normal straightforward path to victory (like vote manipulation in this game) my personal preference is to rule that teams only acchieve their win con by eliminating all players of the opposing team, or if preventing the opposing team from acchieving their victory condition becomes impossible. However, it's also good to keep the game's balance in mind, and changing the win conditions to that in this game is going to swing balance towards human favor.

So basically Specs, it's up to you. Go and think about it for a little and decide what win condition rules you think would suit your game best.

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

THC is American but usually works night shift (IIRC) so he'll hopefully be on soon as well.

Indeed. I have just gotten online for tbe first time since the game started.

I have a question for Specs, since the game post doesn't seem very clear about it. Is there a wolfing at night?

[Toby]

Hi I'm here I've a busy day out today but I'll try catch-up before phase end

[SpecsFlyer17]

Hey all.

Math, you won't directly know who is on the naughty list, but some deductions could possibly be made depending on who gets wolfed or if a KitB occurs.

THC, sorry, yes there are wolfings. I realize the Grinch description doesn't mention it, although there are other references to wolfings in other roles.

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

THC, sorry, yes there are wolfings. I realize the Grinch description doesn't mention it, although there are other references to wolfings in other roles.

Yeah, that's why I was confused.

So, my initial feelings:
1. davy's initial post reads very town to me. He definitely feels like the person I trust most as of now. I could definitely see him being Grandma, but imo Grandma is more likely to team with town than with the Grinch, anyway.
2. BDS and Oricorio both talked about lynching Grandma as being bad, as if she doesn't get ousted from the game after D2 anyway.
3. On top of that, while Oricorio has certainly added a lot to discuss about, BDS's responses have felt reactionary at best. They don't seem to adding any meaningful commentary on what they're responding to, and don't even always have more to say than what basically amounts to "Yeah, that makes sense".
4. Xiao has yet to post, and Toby, math, and TZP have one post each with none amounting to much. I would like to hear more from these four, but there's nothing to make them inherently sus yet, since the game only just started.
5. Specs sus.

In the spirit of Oricorio, and since I never actually did this for him when he asked before, I shall give a GTH. GTH BDS is Grinch and davy is Grandma.

[Oricorio]

Indeed. I have just gotten online for tbe first time since the game started.

I have a question for Specs, since the game post doesn't seem very clear about it. Is there a wolfing at night?

This is a good look for THC. Firstly, it's a bold thing for a wolf to ask, secondly, the Grinch's role PM (shown in the OP) explicitly mentions a wolfing. Of course, this kind of thing can be faked, but it would still be an unusual opener for a wolf.

[Oricorio]

Howdy y'all

Will we know if we're on the naughty list? Either way, we'll have to watch for some unusual voting patterns

A bit of a meh post, while the former is something that wouldn't be terribly relevant to a wolf (although it could influence their strategy) it ends with a vague note on "unusual voting patterns". Still, this doesn't seem to be outside math's typical meta (even if I've only seen town!math once)

[Oricorio]

Hi I'm here I've a busy day out today but I'll try catch-up before phase end

Also a meh post, business is one thing but this post still basically says nothing. I'll be expecting more effort from you

[Oricorio]

Given that we are looking at only one wolf, in many ways we have to approach this more as looking for a hostile ITP than typical wolfhunting, as things like partner interactions are completely irrelevant

[davy]

So I went over the posts that have been made so far, and don't have a lot to add to the reads that other players have made already.


THC gets human points for being the one to point out that BDS's posts have amounted to "makes sense".

Disagree with THC that there is no difference between Grandma being lynched and her getting kicked out of the game. Grandma getting lynched takes down another human with her. If we lynch someone else, we have a chance of lynching the Grinch with that lynch.


3 of Oricorio's initial 4 posts have been about Grandma. I can't help but be reminded of Lantern game where Oricorio kept talking about the Lanterns when he was the Strange Man. Feels like this is either a repeat of that, or Oricorio being the Grinch deliberately trying to make us think he's Grandma so he doesn't get lynched.