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fuck me

had to stay late because of an issue at work, and subsequently was late to transition the game I'm hosting.

i'm feeling very draggy but I would feel like a failure at life if I didn't catch up and do something resembling an analysis, so here I go.

Checking in real quick, looks like I'm gonna have to do things off the cuff with whatever minutes I can steal today because I have to move a complex game forward tonight (which I still haven't made a spreadsheet for :facepalm:) and I don't think the wee hours of the night will be a buzzing hub of activity somehow.

Thankfully all the stuff I've missed from toDay is in the summary view.

yey, it is time for me to analyze all players and possible wolf pairs

1–ThatHiddenCharacter: He's... that. And he's HIDDEN. What more must I say?

OK, jokes aside:

1–Xiao: To be honest, I've had a bad feeling about him since the beginning, and now everything seems to point towards him being a wolf.
2–Kaiveran: They've been so neutral that they're starting to become suspicious (to me) because of it.
3–TZP: I don't have much to analyze with him, but in my eyes he can definitely be a wolf because of that. CoMe BaCk AnD tAlK
4–E. Gadd: I don't see any reason to suspect him any more.
5–A# Minor: I feel silly about adding my name here.

Xiao/Kaiveran: If TZP isn't a wolf, then this is it.
Xiao/TZP: If Kaiveran isn't a wolf, then this is it.
Xiao/E. Gadd: Very unlikely.
Xiao/A#m: I, uh, haven't said a word to him.
TZP/Kaiveran: If Xiao isn't a wolf, then this is it, but I'd be shocked if he isn't.
TZP/E. Gadd: Then I'd wonder what in the world they were doing earlier.
TZP/A#m: We only PM'd each other like once or twice.
A#m/E. Gadd: I don't think it's normal for wolves to openly suspect each other.
Kaiveran/A#m: To avoid writing it a third time, I'll say this instead: I should really talk to people.

I think that covers everything.
Also, I'd like to note that this took like an hour to complete.
/|\(^._.^)/|\ (I did tell you)

I also think putting yourself in an analysis/list is silly, but I also understand it used to happen as a matter of course, so no fault for that.

I understand feeling locked into Xiao at this point (b/c he's been the most underwhelming before toDay) but I think you should elaborate on TZP specifically, because of potential pairing with Xiao and also the PMs.

My main sticking point here is you "not saying a word" to Xiao. Because as I discussed with Gadd via PMs, attacking fellow wolves ("bussing") is typically not something wolves in this tradition do unless forced to. And we really haven't seen any overt defenses either. Which means the primary wolf strategy here would be to ignore/nullread each other. Since your interaction with Xiao slots right into that theory, hopefully my suspicion makes a bit more sense. (although Gadd seems to disagree, hopefully I'll have time to get to his response)

Finally, don't feel too bad about the time taken – when I'm at my sweatiest I can take 2-4 hours to assemble one of my mighty analysis/casing walls. Although that my partially be down to my dumb ADHD-brain, meow.

I get that you're busy, but if you do find the time, I'd like to see if your memory stands up to reading through the game thread for interactions. As for me, it isn't necessarily that it's a lock-clear, but the way A# is playing is very much a "Hey I'm new and just trying to figure out whatever I can and help wherever I can". If she's a wolf and this is her first game ever and she's playing like that, I think we've stumbled upon a TWG prodigy, or at the very least, I've never seen something like that in my time of playing.

Not quoting, but A# Minor's suspicion post is great for a first timer. Couple of issues that aren't really consequential to this game, I'm happy to talk about them after the game ends though (although I imagine Kaiveran might have more to say with more experience).
I forget what it stands for, but it's like, "you mislynch, you lose"

Unfortunately, as I went into above, it's probably not gonna be until way late at night that I actuall get the wherewithal to do my usual thing, it's gonna be hampered by the fact that, in all likelihood, I'm gonna have to follow others' votes even if they're not optimal by my analysis (because they won't be awake to follow my vote). Still, I suppose it's worth a shot.

I do somewhat agree with the latter, though, which is why I'm trying to give her some space to elaborate.
(gotta go.)

check in real quick during a lull

A# Minor and E Gadd is a possibility, but I feel like TZP and you are too, Kaiveran. It does seem a little obvious to downright agree with them in your analysis post, but I do get the sense both of you have been avoiding each other somewhat. Not to mention, TZP has been more agressive and directly confrontational towards the others, as if trying to divide our attention.

tbis seems pretty rational from a town Xiao pov, but in what sense have do you feel I've been avoiding Zelda


I gave my mild town read of him and as I remember I didn't get much of a response from him, so I think there's an asymmetry you're not accounting for here


Not saying that can't be telling off course . What exactly is scummy about Zelda's aggression do you think?

oh yeah and IT'S LYLO so don't vote until you're damn sure of your vote.

I am extremely pressed for time and basically will only be able to actually play on Sunday

I was thinking it might be Xiao & 36 b/c reading their posts you'd be forgiven for thinking they didn't even know each other were in the game, but then 36 died

From memory I feel like Xiao & A# Minor gave me similar feelings, but Gadd seems to lock-clear her so i'd urge him to share with the class when appropriate

[Olimar]

Fack

I conked out as soon as I got home.

I don't even know the votecount or if DL is past yet, but I know I don't want Gadd to hang

Olimar

gah why is the phase transition time early morning

I'll try to check back up on things late tonight but I'm probably missing EoD

out for now.

I mostly agree with E.Gadd's first post on this page

don't really have time to go over the second in detail but pairwise analysis is prob the best way to solve this thing going forward

I think TZP makes a good point and like, purely from the play of statistics over the mixed bag of players we have here, we shouldn't get too caught up in the seniority argument

nice to have confirmation from THC, but with the cat out of the bag about 36 being there at SoN (as Gadd pointed out) it doesn't really mean much

as for Olimar I can buy the first counterpoint, but I have trouble with the second. from town!Oli's POV one would think that if you're embracing the perspectives that he seemed to have (vets are more likely wolf, E. Gadd is clear), and you're obviously clearing yourself from that pool, then the only remaining option in that lane is TZP. and I can understand wanting to reserve your vote but I would expect some actual prodding of TZP in lieu of that, and I haven't seen that at all

[due to my accursed work schedule, I will be largely unavailable on Thursdays, Saturday, or Sunday]

Aye, due to circumstances I have only a scant few minutes to devote to this game today (the IRL today, not toDay).

Also, I should have mentioned this earlier, but due to my accursed work schedule, I will be largely unavailable on Thursdays, Saturday, or Sundays.

Hmm...

Olimar, why aren't you voting ZeldaPianist right now?

(serious question)

slightly suspect: Olimar, 36
slightly unsuspect: E. Gadd, Zelda
need to hear more from: A# Minor, XiaoMigros

Hi! I was sleeping

FWIW: where I'm from we play an IRL version of this game, complete with many more interesting human-roles and other whacky mechanics. So I'm not completely clueless as to how things should work here:

I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that there's at least one experienced wolf. As Olimar already mentioned, BDS as a moderator and an active member could simply have been a random choice. That said, it's definitely not unlikely that there is at least one experienced wolf, given by the number of players alone.

At least you're going against the grain here...at least, as much of a "grain" as one other player's theory is, even if Olimar and 36 seem to concur with it.
Do you have any solid reads from this perspective yet?

[but after the game, Mr. Electrum, I gotta know what you think of the term "Lemmy's Last Sheet" above.]

Got distracted, got hungry, had some dinner. Hope it doesn't go through me as fast as my last meal. Doesn't seem like there's multiquoting on this forum except for the most recent posts in the advanced editor, so that's gonna severely cramp my usual style. Specific post links work, though, so I guess I can do some seat of my pants commentary with those, even if it's harder to read.

–
A# Minor is one of the completely new people we've got here, right? If so, #6 and following seem really boilerplate newbie-feeling-out-the-game content. Zelda's #12 is helpful enough, but not really anything indicative of alignment in my eyes.

E. Gadd's #14, however, gives me a slight town lean in context. He(?) seems to sense things going in an unproductive direction, particularly for this specific game setup, and puts in an attempt to steer it back.
(Yes, I'm an enby who routinely forgets to check pronouns, and then forgets people's pronouns once I learn them. We exist, unfortunately. Hell, I'd forget half of y'all's names if they weren't LITCHRULLY in front of me all the time.)


#15, I guess this is true from a technical standpoint, but to me, true-blue Lemmy's-Last-Sheet T-Dubs isn't truly back until there's some chunky mystery games with wacky mechanics and at least 3 different factions being run again. Probably not gonna happen anytime soon, but hey, a foxcat can dream!

#17 by E.Gadd, you think some classic OC strats might come back even with PMs only? Like that one thing we always did when we thought we said too much to X and then contacted a third-party Y saying "if I die tonight, X might be a wolf?" I don't think we ever named that, mind you, but it happened in some form all the time. I wanna call it "deadhanding".

As for myself, I don't think I'll be doing too much badgering people over PMs. The real-time feedback/slip-ups/bouncing ideas/etc. of IM conversations was what made that element of our TWG tradition most powerful, IMO, and the PM system here is rather awkward for me. If only Trillian and all the services it linked still existed.

Okay, from the last page I know BDS must have died N1, but after the game, Mr. Electrum, I gotta know what you think of the term "Lemmy's Last Sheet" above.

Speaking of which:

A quick list of everyone who's posted so far:

1. BlackDragonSlayer: posted
2. World 36-1: NOT posted
3. E. Gadd: posted
4. A# Minor: posted
5. TheZeldaPianist: posted
6. Kaiveran: NOT posted
7. Xiao: posted
8. Olimar12345: posted

Do we know whether or not the wolf kill is mandatory this game (i.e randomized if a wolf doesn't send it)? Because if it's not, we can pretty much confirm that World 36 and I are not partners, which would make her lock clear from my perspective. Which, y'know, feels like playing dirty a little bit, but it sure would be a nice piece of info to have.

Yeah, 36-1 came online about an hour after the game started so he could be aware that the game is on but just didn't have time to post anything. Kaiveran (?) wasn't on since the 30th.
... That information was probably unnecessary XD

Speak of the devil. While I will largely concur with E. Gadd on the issue of status stalking being against the spirit of the game (and not totally reliable anyways) the information is out there now. And it appears from this that I cannot, in fact, lock-clear W36. Still, I guess it was worth a shot.

I will attempt to reach out to 36-1 and Kaiveran, plus I do think pinging the alive players on Discord for phase changes is a good idea that I will implement going forward.

As for BDS' final words:

they played me like a damn fiddle

I gotta concur with E.Gadd below this post; this is a rather cryptic yikes-post, and quite possibly speaks to some shenanigans going down in the Slayer's DMs Night 1. Has anyone talked to BDS behind the scenes before his death? Did he tell you anything specific about certain players?
(Sure, people can just outright lie and omit things about this, since he's no longer around to set the record straight, but any content in this vein might be useful for analysis down the road.)

The way this game is structured it definitely favors the wolves, even with cardflips. In the absence of any special roles, the information between the humans and the wolves is as wide as it can be. And with the numbers, we are allowed a grand total of one mislynch before the game could end. It is imperative that people be talking about their suspicions as much as possible. More information means more potential for getting a read on someone, which is the only way to close that information gap.

There are slim pickings for things to respond to, but slim pickings is not nothing. BDS is the longest-running, most experienced player here iirc. Manti Rule-ing him off would suggest an experienced wolf--one who would have played with him enough to know that he's been around a while. For you newcomers, that's me, E. Gadd, and Olimar. Also, he was murked right after suggesting reaching out to the inactives on alternate platforms. The wolves have an incentive to keep thread activity during a manhunt game to a minimum, because that's how they get caught. So to my eye, the BDS wolfing looks like someone who's been around the block a few times but hasn't been engaged with the thread enough to say more than "experienced player getting people to talk? Get rid of him"

Olimar is the person who fits this mold the most right now, as someone who has been playing TWG here for a number of years but has only posted to say "I'm posting". Like E. Gadd, I'm interested in hearing what he thinks so far.

A# and Xiao, don't be shy, we need your input too!

(Blue emphasis mine.)
Even considering the inherent whyfoam in assuming players here will default to old patterns, this is a well-reasoned out, solid case for this stage in the game.

I would definitely like to hear a bit more from all the parties you mentioned before I commit to a vote though.

heh well it's only night 1 so what else is there to talk about?

Actually, an argument of "suspect the veterans" would be a pretty smart play from a wolf too, especially when we know at least one of them most likely is also a veteran player.

Well, E. Gadd and BDS himself where trying to keep the activity up N1, and they both gave reasons for it. Is there a particular reason you didn't see fit to participate much in that discussion?

Lmao I completely forgot to check the forums. Sorry for leaving you waiting, I'll be checking more frequently so I hopefully don't miss anything else! I'm mainly active on the Discord, so hello Forum Friends!

Regarding suspicions, E. Gadd reached out to me about the game earlier today (thanks btw). Going off of what TheZeldaPianist said, that indicates to me that E. Gadd would be safe.

Welcome to the game, 36! (do you mind that nickname?)

And yeah, while it's nice that E. Gadd was proactive with PMing you, I wouldn't cement that in stone for all time as a town read. If we whiff today we are immediately at ELo the next Day and we have to then consider all options.

Hello, World 36-1! Thanks for confirming that reach-out. E. Gadd is probably a safe pass for the lynch.

Ok, like, I think E. Gadd has been decently towny thus far, but this sudden convergence on "E. Gadd is off the table" makes me think that at least one of 36 and Olimar have TMI.

Ahh! Sorry for my absence everyone. Checking this forum slipped my mind as I've had a lot on my plate lately. Including perhaps a newly developing medical condition. Whoopee.

Thankfully it doesn't seem like this will be too long a read.

[Rotunda's core feature would be]

On that note, it would definitely help to have multiple backups of NSM/LLF TWG history, all controlled by different people (and as publicly accessible as they can be), if possible.

What about not only multiple backups of your history, but also of any of the new stuff you post/play, in a publicly accessible distributed network that ensures no private owner or corporate fiat can demolish it in one fell swoop?
That's the gist of Rotunda, a project I've been gestating for a while, now, and with the recent spate of absolute fuckery perpetrated by nearly every major platform on the web, it's something that I'm chomping at the bit to actually make real in some sense.

A short summary adapted from the survey:

Rotunda [is a planned] open-source federated "collection of platforms" that would enable people to host all kinds of collective activities.

Unlike the current Fediverse, it is not meant to mimic the churn of contemporary "instant" social media platforms. There would be some stuff in that vein, like individual status feeds and direct/group messaging, but Rotunda's core feature would be something called a Space, which is basically a classic discussion forum with some much needed technology upgrades.

Rotunda, above all, is planned to be truly decentralized and resilient. All devices running Rotunda would form a network, and all data uploaded to the network – from the most lovingly detailed custom gameboard to a single forum post – would be given a unique "signature" via cryptographic hashing. [NOTE: this has nothing to do with cryptocurrency, mind you. Rotunda is a strictly small-tech and/or web0 project.]

This does away with the need to retrieve your data by connecting with a specific server in a specific location. Instead, you and everyone else in your Space would host their own data, and backup each other's data, by dedicating a customizable amount of storage to the network. The generated "signatures" would then ensure that you can find whatever you're looking for, no matter who (or what) has it. Robust privacy options and encryption by default would make sure your content is seen by who you intend to see it – no more, no less.

Finally, after joining the network, you would create one or more Aliases (akin to different "handles" or accounts) which can each join/leave any number of Spaces, seamlessly and independently. So you won't have to make different accounts for different instances, as you unfortunately have to do for the current Fediverse. It would be truly interoperable.

Rotunda's primary intended use would be to help you do things with your friends – usually fun things! From social deduction games, to RPG campaigns – even movie nights! If Rotunda doesn't quite fit your needs at first, its functionality will be easily expandable with Modules, freely distributed applications or "mods" that facilitate particular activities or purposes.

Maybe you don't care about all that, and just want a nice place for you and your friends to chat. Rotunda will do that too – and as a bonus, your place will never suddenly disappear because of unpaid hosting bills or a private owner liquidating it.If Rotunda becomes a thing, that would mean your friend group, dev team, Mafia board, etc. could become a self-hosted and self-managed community of its own, which lasts as long as you want it to last, and is impervious to the whims of any unaccountable digital landlord.

While the response has been mostly positive thus far, it has been very limited in number, and of those few, none seem to have the expertise or the willingness to make it happen (or alternatively, tell me it can't), which makes me a sad foxcat. Which is why I'm now posting about it here, because this place is probably above average on the Shitzgiven Scale.

Like seriously, all the basic technology is there as far as I can see – WebTorrent, content-addressable storage, sponge ciphers, open communication protocols like WebRTC and ActivityPub. We're just missing the glue – the extensible data spec, the application itself, the method of building Modules for that app, etc. – that will let us build our own little Forever Forums with them.

If anyone here has any criticism, advice, or support for this project, especially if you've any expertise in programming, specification design and/or systems engineering, please give me a shout.