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I might put in some more detailed thoughts later, but WOW.

Like, this was always going to be wolfsided, but I'm honestly shocked I pulled off that heist D2. I've never been a high-improv person and have never been one to drop my whole-game-perspective townie mask entirely in favor of just kicking up dust in the moment.

Most of that was down to legitimate IRL time constraints, but still, I was fully expecting to die D2 and have Zelda (dissociated from me due to the deadhanding gambit) go long.

So yeah, I'll take this welcome surprise. Still, I don't understand how working adults play with these deadlines, let alone shorter ones (36h/12h) with ten times the posts. Which is why I stopped playing on MU, honestly. Lemmy's Last Sheet gameplay with Giraffe Boards deadlines (4-5d/2d) is the ideal incarnation of this game for me. But I understand I'm a voice shouting alone in the wilderness on that front.

Might do more detailed commentary later, ask any questions you might have in the meantime!

It was never 7am EST, it's been 9am every time

let this be a testament to how I really, really need some actual sleep now. I gotta be somewhere at around 1PM my time.

Let's just hope its not e gadd and zelda...

But yes, very icky situation

That would be the heist of the decade.

If only we had modbot that could support multiple hosts and not lock phase times to one schedule.

That reminds me, I should really see about getting us a partner forum on MU sometime...if that's okay with the staff here of course.

You posted this 4 hours before phase change

Oh really? What happened to 7am est?
We might hear back from some people yet.

She's in two of the possible teams FMPOV just like you, but there's potential hard evidence there based on Zelda's absence.

And if I'm barking up the wrong tree, the person I'm badgering is more likely than me to see the correct answer. It's like the Monty Hall problem of Mafia.

And of course, it's better than leaving it to a roll of the dice. We're TWG players. We should do better.

Sorr if I talked myself out of the correct vote town.

[Vote: A#]

but tbh im waiting until zelda is confirmed online to see how they react to everything

With less than 15 minutes left in the Day now I don't think we're going to get anything else from Zelda today.

as for my case, if there's anything you want to know from me please say

I don't think I'll get what I asked for in that timeframe either, or even get a response from you or anyone else.

But if you are here...know that I am very uncomfortable leaving our fate up to the luck of the draw.
If we're both town, we lose.If we're not both town and the coin flip goes the wrong way, we lose.
Since we both seem to converge on A# being a wolf, and given that the possibility has been entertained by others that I have more trust in (plus the activity concerns earlier), I'd be up to move there with you and close out this Day with some dignity.
P-EDIT:

yup, hi

Vote: A#For great justice?

Ffffffffffffff

Had something to eat and then dozed off on the couch....only woke up because I set a reminder timer to AM instead of PM

anyone there?

Seriously.

Both A# Minor and E. Gadd were active and posting while Xiao and I were crossvoting, and didn't wolfrush. So it's not Gadd/A#. The only missing person here is Zelda.

With all that's just happened, the only reasonable answers to me are Xiao/A# or Xiao/TZP.

tbh im just waiting for everyone to come online, its like early morning hours for americans rn lets not forget

besides, if youre wolf, thats only one vote for me so far, theres 2 wolves, and you need 3 wolves. only if youre town will there be a wolf rush on town!me

If you are town, the only plausible wolf team here is A#/TZP given the activity record. Which you are still loath to mention for some reason.
If you (or Gadd, for that matter) can put together a absolute slam-dunk case on why that team is exactly the team in the next hour or so, and vote for one of them, I will follow that vote. Otherwise, this is what my tired fluffy butt is sticking to.

I'm... I'm confused. I think I'm going to sleep now.

If you are still awake and/or make it back before deadline, and are town, please just vote for Xiao.

He(?) gave up the ghost in this post AFAIC. He was all about a me/TZP team for most of toDay, then I vote for himand there's no wolf rush, which should confirm that I'm a wolf to town!Xiao without any doubt. But somehow he's still holding out "hope" for me being town, despite it necessitating a you/TZP team that, if I recall correctly, he never tried to solve for.

The more you reassure everyone that you're town, the more over the game is, regardless of whether you actually are

Nah, bro.
The only way both of us are town at this point is if the wolf team is exactly A# and TZP, and TZP isn't responding to her harried PMs to help wolf rush.
That's literally the only situation that would make sense. And I haven't seen it from you.

I can try my best but im running on fumes (which is awful timing seeing as Kaiveran just got on)

Basically, his reasoning for all of that makes sense to me. He was encouraging activity from the start, and while you and I have differing beliefs about the relative importance of activity, I believe it is objectively good for town for any activity to happen. Obviously, with D1 there isn't going to be a ton of grounds for any solid-read lynch votes, which leads to people grasping at straws (as you saw with me against A# and TZP for coinciding in their thought process about BDS's death). It's just that TZP took it one step further to actually formally accuse/vote on someone. I've seen that strategy before from a town, and it's worked exactly as TZP described by putting someone "in the hot seat", and the fact that he specifically went for someone he knew would respond (thus encouraging more activity) is, again, something that can only help town. Yes, it led to a mislynch, but we've gotten significantly more information and discussion that night not otherwise have happened had TZP not made that early first move. And he's also right that D1 lynch is very often a mislynch; I'd actually be curious to see the stats breakdown, but I'd be willing to bet that it happens more often than not that D1 ends in a mislynch. His fears also of people not saying anything are very founded regarding the very long TWG dry spell here; I was worried about that myself, hence I tried drumming up conversation as much as possible.

Hopefully that gives some insight into my thought process. I hope Kaiveran doesn't take too much longer bc I'm actively shutting down :')

(Replying to E Gadd)
That is all understandable, but as an experienced player I'm sure they would do so regardless of whether they are town or wolf. Fitting your vision of good play would be a necessity for any side, right? So again, this doesn't seem like enough evidence to make them trustworthy, at least not in my eyes.

This is a bit of a pickle, actually. While Gadd's reasoning for town!TZP is sound and aligns with my early impressions – and as an aside, it should be pretty clear now why I chose TZP to hedge my bets on and why I've been thinking wolves are Xiao/A#.
But it gets really whyfoamy when you consider the creeping pressure that Xiao has been under basically all Day....Xiao actually makes some points here, and wolf!Xiao might actually have decided that telling the truth about wolf!TZP might have been the right side of the coin to go on, to give him towncred on the way out.

And while wolf!A# wouldn't be able to arraigne a hammer in this situation, the patience and lack of casing or pushing here gives me pause, because why would she not try to secure the best option for her unless she was legitimately unsure what that option was?

All that I can say for certain is that I will give my all to figuring out the best partner toNight. No stone unturned.

Might as well address previously voiced concerns while I'm here:

Assuming that I'm reading correctly, it appears that Kaiveran would've sent their PM to TZP very shortly after me. I suppose they thought they were poking the beast by PMing me and were lying to my face from the start?

Like, even if the timing here is correct (contravening mine), I've already explained the purpose of the message and how it fits into my town approach. And where's the pro-wolf angle here? I know by putting that out there to a third party, they're probably gonna reveal it sooner or later. If wolf!Kai wanted to mislead you - the townie with the biggest mouth and the most pull - into voting wrong, I would be feeding you bullshit reads of other players, not yourself. If I didn't have any ideas and just wanted to abuse and/or twist your private words for clout, I would have just killed you N2 so would no longer be here to reveal the trickery.

So in this PM, I was very thrown off by the random message toward the end of N2 from a person I was suspicious of, and so while it did seem somewhat town, I knew this could be a wolf play so I just threw suspicion at TZP being paired with Xiao with enough effort to make it... how do I word this? Basically, I was still suspicious of Kaiveran, so I didn't want to put in no effort and make it clear that I suspected them, thus increasing my chances of getting wolfed that night. I also PM'd A# when I read their message, talking about how weird it is (and I can provide PM receipts for that as well if you wish). It seems to me like Kaiveran and I were mutually suspicious of each other and wanted to ensure that someone would investigate the other should we end up dead the next day.

Ahh, so your message had an element of subterfuge as well.

Can I just say that this is a completely reasonable interaction between townies in this tradition who are unsure of each other? The degrees of uncertainty might be different between us, but the approach is the same. Send select bits of information, feel out the responses for potential signs of alignment, and proceed from there. It's not at all unusual...for us, anyways.

I'm still here but most definitely not going to stay up all the way to EoD.

A#, Zelda, Gadd, do you need anything else from me? Or anything you haven't put on the table that might contraindicate my vote?

I'll pore over the last couple pages again, but I'm honestly not confident enough in anyone else right now.

(Towards E.Gadd)

Yeah, it's a lot to dig through, but the volume alone I think is testament to you actually clutching it out. Sorry if I've been grating: my approach is no one is confirmed town until the host tells me so, and that can look a lot like unjustified FUD, but it's saved me plenty of times.
-

Meanwhile, I hear the sound of no hammers getting dropped.
And everyone's posted recently too, from a quick look back.
In this gamestate, that means either the voter or the votee is a wolf.
and I'm not a wolf.

Unless that is your vote, in which case: great! i will have no choice but to vote for you

It is.I even prefixed it so it would stand out amid the sea of bold.
and yes, I suppose you don't have a choice.

[So let's make this real simple.]

Okay, with the timing and everybody coinking out, this obviously isn't gonna work.
So let's make this real simple.Vote: XiaoPractically nobody thinks he's town, so he's probably just a wolf.
E.Gadd, this is suicide if I'm Xiao's partner because you called out our BS for all to see and killing you won't put it away.Let's do it and argue another Day.

[E. Gadd made an absolute meal in my PMs saying that if he died night 2 that at least 2 people were going straight for my lynch the next day (1).]

Ahh, I see the (fox)cat is out of the bag here.

First things first: the 36 wolfing. This caught me way off guard. I've had more than one of you tell me that you each thought you were next on the chopping block. To be honest I have absolutely no clue what to make of them, in part because I really thought the same thing about myself. E. Gadd made an absolute meal in my PMs saying that if he died night 2 that at least 2 people were going straight for my lynch the next day (1). It struck me as ostentatious and ingenuine to a degree that I felt like I was being set up.

A# also was expressing suspicion to me of E. Gadd, specifically because of the case E. Gadd was making about the two of us being weirdly synchronized in our comments on the BDS wolfing (no one has to believe this if they don't want to, but A# will confirm if you ask her)

Then I got this from Kaiveran late in the night phase, right the hell out of nowhere:[my deadhanding PM](2)

If Kai and E. Gadd were both telling the truth, 3 different people thought they were on the chopping block night 2. But it's not possible that Kai and E. Gadd were both telling the truth (not unless Xiao and A# are wolves togetehr , which is close to an impossibility in my mind (3)). And given what A# and I had discussed I was at least a little more inclined to trust Kai over E. Gadd. So I was 100% ready to push for an E. Gadd lynch today if I survived. And then 36 died.

Wolfing 36 is literally the polar opposite end of the spectrum from wolfing BDS. Because 36 was so laconic with his posts, there's comparatively not much information at all to be gleaned from his wolfing--he didn't really array himself either with or against anybody. So right now I'd like to hear from both E. Gadd and Kai exactly what it was they were talking about in PMs that made Kai so concerned about getting wolfed (4), because I was very surprised to see 36's obituary in the day update, and I'm wondering if someone made a last-second switch in wolfing target.

First off, WTF is going on in (1)? I hope these PMs are made public either by the current end of this thread, because this sounds like something that a townie doesn't do unless they really have dirt or they really wanna pressure a scumread for a straight answer.

(2) Yeah, I foreshadowed my own strategy in a post, what about it? Seriously though, I really wanted to get back to basics as this is the first OC game I've played in literal years, and with me wanting to hash things out with Gadd but simultaneously not wanting to put all my eggs in one basket, I figured this was the perfect opportunity to put that old trick to work.

As for the nature of this publicization, I kinda want to lean it town because any wolf worth their salt would subsequently kill me and have the perfect alibi to go after E. Gadd for the win D2– or, if they didn't think they had the rhetorical skills to take him on, just keep it tucked in DMs and pocket me into voting for their pet mislynch. Then again sitting on it this long into a potential F5 kinda bugs me. Point 4 will answer a bit more.

(3) Again, I'm really not seeing what's so impossible about a Xiao/A# pairing. I think this should be quite obvious from what little I've posted this phase previously, but please do field any questions if you're still around.
(4) Well, deadhanding isn't exactly "OMG I'm so scared I'm gonna get wolfed!" It's really just a hedged bet. Gadd was truly my top townread, but as always, I know that top townread can sometimes be wrong, and I feel doubly obligated to consider that possibility when we have to axe a wolf this phase to win. His response had nothing to do with it – if both of y'all check timestamps I'm pretty sure I sent the deadhand before Gadd replied to me. I just gave myself a little lifeline, a "just-in-case" so that if I did get screwed by wolf!Gadd, it woudn't go totally unanswered for. It's a neat thing that OC lets you do and damn if I won't take advantage of it.