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[There was talk during day 2 (and even day 1) about how Haruhi/Ness was a strong possibility for wolf pairing. Since the game didn't end, and Ness and Waluigi were incompatible as partners, that left two possibilities: Haruhi was a human, or Waluigi was a human. We established during day 1 that Waluigi was potentially a bad human that the wolves could hide behind, and with Ness's claim seeming so scummy, it suddenly seemed possible that the wolf pair could actually be Haruhi/Ness. If that pairing hadn't been previously discussed, we would've had much more reason to trust Ness after the game continued. Obviously the chances of Waluigi being the wolf were higher, but there was so little information to glean from Haruhi's actions that it couldn't be ruled out.]

Did you not believe that after day 2, when the game didn't end after the Waluigi wolfing, that Ness was confirmed seer?

There was talk during day 2 (and even day 1) about how Haruhi/Ness was a strong possibility for wolf pairing. Since the game didn't end, and Ness and Waluigi were incompatible as partners, that left two possibilities: Haruhi was a human, or Waluigi was a human. We established during day 1 that Waluigi was potentially a bad human that the wolves could hide behind, and with Ness's claim seeming so scummy, it suddenly seemed possible that the wolf pair could actually be Haruhi/Ness. If that pairing hadn't been previously discussed, we would've had much more reason to trust Ness after the game continued. Obviously the chances of Waluigi being the wolf were higher, but there was so little information to glean from Haruhi's actions that it couldn't be ruled out.

[Right here:]

Right here:

in case you haven't heard, apparenlty theres no cardflips

Apparently this was originally made known in the Mafia Discord server a few hours before Waluigi posted.

Ninja'd:

Samus, why, when Ness said they seered you green, did you not contact them to discuss things?

Because he did not contact me at any point earlier. I would have expected the real seer to have set up the alliance by then (i.e., contacted me), especially after you posted in the topic night 1 reminding the Seer to set up the alliance if they haven't already. If he really was the seer (which we know he was now, but there was uncertainty at the time), the ball was in his court to set up that communication effort, and claiming that we had been his green check without telling us was all kinds of strange. Here's a link to the post where I established that Ness had plenty of time to contact me, and had every reason to do so after almost getting lynched day 1. I don't like setting up private contact with potential wolves.

[That would be me.]

That would be me.

[That's not at all what I thought either.]

That's not at all what I thought either.

[Works okay for me. TWG Pikachu, and I'm expecting him to do the same.]

Works okay for me. TWG Pikachu, and I'm expecting him to do the same.

[at some point over the next like 30 hours.]

Pika's most recent post

Alrighty, I think you've made a slip and we've got a checkmate. You claim:

Quote 1: This is you trying to justify you deflecting suspicion onto Ness while trying to avoiding buddying with Waluigi by making it look like being Ness' error made him look extremely wolfy and your suspicion was not an unfounded attempt to save your partner.

Quote 2: You say this to as a point to make me look like a wolf... but hey! Look what you said in point one, Ness was a suspicios dude and therefore a viable lynch target! Ooooh, I also aready had the precedent of thinking Waluigi was human, and thinking Ness was the last wolf. But wait, there's more - if I lynch Ness that phase, I win the game! You know what would of been a great move, trying to get Ness lynched. But you know what I did instead? I brought up a point no one had said yet trying to confirms Ness' humanity to start a waluigi lynch so that way no one will think I could possibly be his partner! The best part is that people are so suspicios of Ness that they'll lynch him anyways and my partner won't die so I guess nothing I did mattered anyways! Ahuhuhuhu~excuse my sarcasm

Obviously our move greatly helped the humans (also admittedly our only good move this game), so which is it? Was Ness a viable lynch target I could of pushed for or were you wrong to try and throw shade on him? Or maybe I'm just stupid and distancing was totally the best move in that situation, but that's for luigi to decide.

[close]

Seeing as I am running on very little sleep, forgive the denseness in my response. I am sincerely attempting to understand your second point, but it is quite the source of confusion. Could you perhaps explain it without the sarcasm so I may comprehend? Also do bear in mind that the post you linked to in your first point is merely stating and explaining suspicion of Ness, while simultaneously expressing our support for the lynching of the wolf, Waluigi. We were suspicious of both, however, seeing as we're playing in the human interest, we supported the lynch that was most sensible. Although not quite the same, this situation is compared to that of your own early on, when you made known your suspicions of both Haruhi and Ness, claiming you did not care which one died in the day one lynch. While we did care who died (Waluigi), we were openly making our case against the other, as Ness (and Waluigi early on in the game especially) made the case against Waluigi. As such, there was no need to make a post of rivalling length against Waluigi compared to our Ness claim, as it would only have been redundant and rather pointless.

woo this is juicy stuff

i haven't read all of it, but I will do when I finish work and make my comments and questions and stuff. And then after a thorough discussion with my luigi partner we will come to a decision... at some point over the next like 30 hours.

but could you guys just vote each other so when we make our decision it's all dramatic and game ending and we don't give the wolf the satisfaction of wolf rushing for the insta looool

With reference to the bold, that is quite the timeframe you have given! But I await your response (and the same with you, Pikachu)! With reference to the underlined, ahhh, it seems as someone wants all the glory! Heh... but in all seriousness, do you want us to vote for each other immediately or wait for a final decision to be made?

[Well goodness, looks like thinking I could go to bed tonight was a mistake. Let's break this down, shall we?]

Well goodness, looks like thinking I could go to bed tonight was a mistake. Let's break this down, shall we?

I think this is grasping at straws? At this point I had no clue who my partner was as they didn't post until pg 4. I didn't realize that the PM sent to us had the recipients in it.

I have to be blunt here and say that there is really no excuse for this. I was able to see immediately who my partner was based on my PM, and taking so long for either of you to make a connection is baffling.

And why is this wolfish? What makes communication between heads so much more helpful for wolves than humans that one or two posts about it trying to sent my other head a hint pegs me as a wolf? I don't get this argument at all.

It's less that you made a few posts about it and more about the content of this post in particular. You intially reminded everyone to check their PM's, but then agreed that communication between heads is better for wolves, but then said it's not inherently suspicious anyway. It seems like you're simultaneously arguing that communication is both suspicious and not suspicious. Admittedly, this is my weakest argument, but it's worth taking into consideration.

Well for one, I never changed my suspicion until ness claimed wah was red. You seem to forget that if Ness wasn't the seer, there was a green check that could also counter claim. That would of meant both of them were the only two dead players, and the likelyhood of that is what made me change my suspicion.

Ness admitted himself that he forgot that having a green check meant he could set up an alliance. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that a potentially different seer could have also forgotten to claim to their human, who then wouldn't know to counterclaim a false seer. Ness's claims were still incredibly safe ones; jumping from defending Waluigi as soon as Ness posted seems too safe.

My partner was already on board with a wah lynch since d1, so it went through pretty easily.

Given that you spent all of day one arguing against a Waluigi lynch, it would have been nice for your partner to make this apparent then, or for you to say something about your partner's opinion then.

Also that is a really dumb wolf plan you seem to be accusing me of? Getting my partner lynched in a LYLO phase to so I can use it as evidence to dig myself out of the bad situation I put myself in d3 by lynching him in the first place?

Waluigi was on everybody's lynch list day 2. When you've spent all of day 1 saying his lynch is a bad idea, turning your vote around day 2 would be the best way to distance yourself from him. Since you voted first, that means you could show your distrust of Waluigi without making it too close to actually killing him. Taking the vote off after everybody agreed to lynch him would've looked way too suspicious.

If I was a wolf, I would of known Ness was the real seer and could of taken advantage of everyone's ambivalance to try and get ness lynched. This would been very doable, given how everyone else was publically walking the line.

Like I said during my analysis of Ness's claim, Waluigi was the safest, most-likely-to-be-a-wolf lynch for day 2. Even with the uncertainty surrounding Ness, there was general certainty around Waluigi, which would be very hard to sway.

There's not much to recontextualize. It's nothing more than you being needlessly cautious to try and look human. He's confirmed human, I'm human, that means he's wolf - there's absolutely no reason for a human to play passive at that point.

Purple made that post on his own, I wasn't able to be here until a couple hours after phase change. We'd been operating on the assumption that Ness was a wolf and he didn't want to make any moves until I was aware of the situation. Purple's a little shy but he was watching the discussion, so he posted to indicate he was active. I would definitely have encouraged an aggressive start, and that's what my long post was for.

Also you defending purple samus here instead of waiting for him to answer is awfully scummy.

I wasn't "waiting for him to answer." He read through the thread while I was unavailable and then messaged me about it when I got on. The post I made was a consolidation of our resulting discussion. We're going into the final day phase, we wanted a strong post against you to lead with.

Reasons against us, with a response:
-Pikachu has been defending Waluigi all game.
       +One of us has, the other has not.

You keep saying this. Where was blue head day 1 to say this? There was ample time to acknowledge a disagreement between you two.

You know how Waluigi has been avoiding interacting with Samus, that's what someone who doesn't know how to distance does. They don't create painfully obvious partnerships.

I think we all have a pretty good idea who the most vocal Waluigi head was in reality. The player I'm thinking of seems to really enjoy doing his own thing and not addressing the claims against him in favor of loudly proclaiming that he's right and you're all stupid. I don't think there's anyone he reacted to positively in any way, except you, notably.

-Pikachu contradicted himself about differentiating heads.
       +Well, as my other head pointed out, there wasn't anything wolfy about that in the first place? Second, the contradiction is two seperate heads posting seperate opinions.

Again, this was my weakest argument, so I won't press on it much. But it would have been nice to acknowledge that the contradiction was the result of separate heads, especially when you claim that blue head was for a Waluigi lynch since day 1 but there's no evidence of that in topic.

-Pikachu started the Waluigi bandwagon to look more human.
       +This would of just been a dumb idea considering how possible a Ness lynch was (snice no one thought about green check counter claims, apperantly?)

And I already addressed this one above.

FOR LUIGI:
Point 1: Pikachu seems to contradict himself about whether inter-head coordination is suspicious
Point 2: Pikachu defends Waluigi all of day 1 because no wolf would be this bold on day 1 (three separate links)
Point 3: Pikachu stops defending Waluigi completely once Ness claims seer and emphasizes that Ness has to be believed if he goes uncontested

[I've been talking it over with my other head, and at this point we really don't have any reason to think that Pikachu isn't the remaining wolf. Here's what we've found:- Pikachu emphasized communication between heads right at the start of the game. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, but he then went on to establish that communication between heads is more helpful to wolves and specials than anyone else, while it still]

I've been talking it over with my other head, and at this point we really don't have any reason to think that Pikachu isn't the remaining wolf. Here's what we've found:
- Pikachu emphasized communication between heads right at the start of the game. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, but he then went on to establish that communication between heads is more helpful to wolves and specials than anyone else, while it still "isn't to say it's not something town should try to do or that suggesting everyone try and get in communication is suspicious behavior". His original post seems like a nudge at his wolf partner, disguised as a helpful hint for the humans, while posting conflicting opinions in the next post seems like backpedaling to cover over himself.
- Pikachu spent a large amount of time during the game defending Waluigi under the pretense that "no wolf would act so controversially so early in the game." ([Post][Post][Post]) Generalizing how a wolf will play is a shaky move, and no player is guaranteed to play any role a certain way. This feels like a cover for Waluigi's antics to try and draw attention away from him and towards inactive players, who Pikachu argues could potentially be wolves, but are also incredibly likely to be the seer.
- Pikachu only changed his suspicions to Waluigi after Luigi called him out for his defense, and doubled down when Ness claimed and revealed his red seering. On top of that, he invoked the strategy Charu proposed during the last game, where an uncontested seering must be trusted. When the two players who had died so far were mostly inactive, which is a strategy a seer would be wise to adhere to, as Ness stated in the PM's ("my experienced partner has been purposefully inactive to get wolves to not wolf us night 1"), there was really no reason to believe Ness had to be the seer when there was possibility that the seer might already be dead. This looks like an attempt to encourage people to focus on Waluigi and away from Pikachu's earlier defense of him.

In response to the above post:

This is the only thing they ever said that I find suspicous. When luigi said he was the green check, a human Samus should of instantly though "yo, that means Pikachu is a wolf."

I mean, yeah, that is what we instantly thought. But with Luigi dropping a lot of information all at once there was a lot we needed to recontextualize and put together based on the new information we had. That's what you see above.

Agreed, no votes until discussion has run its course. I am currently going back through the thread and analyzing posts with the information you just disclosed in mind, and I'll share my thoughts after that.

[TWG Waluigi]

TWG Waluigi
Let's just get this over with.

[I'm not convinced Ness is just a seer who is playing badly. Seering Waluigi red is absolutely the safest possible false seering someone could make, aside from seering Luigi green, but no good seer would seer Luigi night 1 after Waluigi's antics and Luigi's...well, non-antics. Secondly, yes it's possible that Ness just forgot to contact me, but that's less possible given that he almost got lynched day 1. In fact, he would have been lynched if that one vote had been properly counted. Whose vote was that again? Right, the human he supposedly had a green check for. Don't you think he would have made some attempt to message me after I voted to say "wait, don't vote for me, I'm the seer and I saw you green, let's talk"? Or even during the night phase to say "you almost got me killed, let's make sure that doesn't happen again." As it stands, Ness is playing things way too close to the chest and way too risky if he really is the seer, which I don't believe he is.That being said, Waluigi is definitely the safest lynch to go for today, so I'm still completely willing to lynch him first if that's the decision we come to. However, keep Ness at the front of your mind.]

I'm not convinced Ness is just a seer who is playing badly. Seering Waluigi red is absolutely the safest possible false seering someone could make, aside from seering Luigi green, but no good seer would seer Luigi night 1 after Waluigi's antics and Luigi's...well, non-antics. Secondly, yes it's possible that Ness just forgot to contact me, but that's less possible given that he almost got lynched day 1. In fact, he would have been lynched if that one vote had been properly counted. Whose vote was that again? Right, the human he supposedly had a green check for. Don't you think he would have made some attempt to message me after I voted to say "wait, don't vote for me, I'm the seer and I saw you green, let's talk"? Or even during the night phase to say "you almost got me killed, let's make sure that doesn't happen again." As it stands, Ness is playing things way too close to the chest and way too risky if he really is the seer, which I don't believe he is.

That being said, Waluigi is definitely the safest lynch to go for today, so I'm still completely willing to lynch him first if that's the decision we come to. However, keep Ness at the front of your mind.

[I have not been contacted by Ness, or any other seer, for that matter. Ness, if you seer'd me green day 1, why did you not contact me?]

Actually, my green check was Samus.

I have not been contacted by Ness, or any other seer, for that matter. Ness, if you seer'd me green day 1, why did you not contact me?

Okay. I thank you for clarifying.

[My bad, Just remember to bold from now on.]

My bad, Just remember to bold from now on.

IS THIS BOLD ENOUGH FOR YOU OLI/SEBASTIAN BRAINY

[*sigh* We're really going to do it like that? I didn't know my coding was screwed up until after posting but I figured it would be obvious enough. Haruhi's not a terrible lynch, but that's a stupid reason for a KitB to occur.]

*sigh* We're really going to do it like that? I didn't know my coding was screwed up until after posting but I figured it would be obvious enough. Haruhi's not a terrible lynch, but that's a stupid reason for a KitB to occur.