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If the thought of going down to one wolf is still on the table, what about the option of substituting the second wolf slot to a Tanner or third party self-destructive role?
Part of me feels if the wolf gets killed early then game is over, similar to if the Vengeful gets killed; a lot can be decided quickly.

The third party would still give added bad-guy chaos, but idk.. perhaps it would just provide more cover for the wolf.

Just thinking! As an inexperienced balance-r 

> : )

:O

(at seeing EGadd)

The problem is that, since they're aware of their identity, they can just claim N0 and be confirmed town (wolves cc'ing would just out them in the long run), so if the purpose is to punish town, it simply won't have the intended effect.

Ah, hadnt considered that. Should they not know their role, then? Then everyone who suspects being lynched would just submit names with the idea they may be the role?

So, if I'm understanding things correctly, all Stumps, including the Wolf Stump, are assigned a Day 2-4 at random, and if they die before then they still get to post on that day?

That was the intent, correct! Die to *wolfings*, though.

Davy, do you think getting rid of a wolf would make the game more balanced? It would also make the game for 7 players, which might be more manageable to fill given recent TWG activity.

If a wolf was removed, would there perhaps just be the Lumberjack Wolf? Would they still have to choose between the two abilities? Because kill + seer 2 things feels a bit strong, no?

I do agree about recent TWG activity, though...

An 8-player 2-wolves game is usually wolf-sided, as humans can afford only one mislynch. Day start and wolves win at parity makes that a little worse, since humans now have to find the wolves in a bigger pool. Brutal human is always a bit of a gamble. Either they hit a wolf and allow the humans an additional mislynch or it just shrinks the human pool if they hit another human (mislynch number remains the same since wolves win at parity).

Also, I think D4 is not going to happen unless humans skip lynches which is a little awkward for the players that roll D4.

Have you considered allowing the stumps to vote on the day they are allowed to play when dead? That'll make it harder for the wolves to control the lynch during later stages of the game and may make the game more balanced.

I considered that the humans might take the option to not vote D1, but if we started N1, and someone dies with a D2 roll, they could still talk which might be beneficial... I was worried the N1 start would give the wolves the upstart, but the idea behind this one was having those who get voted out early the chance to still have a voice.

True, I just did more math, and D4 could be hard to get to.

Hmm, I hadn't considered it! But I understand the intent. Gives more reason for wolves to use their Day seering more importance than just "oh they'll be able to talk, but thats it". I like that adjustment! Considerations include three people having a D3 roll and then the voting power is upped tremendously at that point? Or could that still swing?

The Brutal/Vengeful Human is meant more to punish the humans for mislynching, but I can see it as also being strong for wolves..

[TWG: I'm Not Dead Yet!]

Well, this seems a bit out of my comfort zone here, but maybe I'll give it a shot?
What's funny is I brought TWG to my Discord community a couple years back and it went over well, but here I feel like the expectations are higher to submit ideas...  Using the mafia wiki, I saw a role that I thought was interesting and figured I'd formulate something revolving around it... Whether or not it is chosen, I'd appreciate the balancing help! Also, I do not have to be the host for this, if someone else wishes to pick it up.

TWG: I'm Not Dead Yet!

A game where being killed doesn't necessarily mean you are silenced...

Voting and night kills happen normally. However, if you are killed by a wolf, you are reduced to a stump. You will be allowed to continue to post in the game thread during your pre-determined Day. Every Stump will be given a corresponding day from 2 through 4, which will allow that dead player to resume in-thread chat for that day only, before resuming death the following night.

There are 7 Stumps (including one wolf) and there will be [at least] two randomly-determined distributions of each Day number assigned. In the end, there will be two players assigned Day 2, two players assigned Day 3, and two players assigned Day 4. The seventh player will have one of those three options; the result of which will not be made public.

Wolves:
1. Wolf Stump: Normal wolf.
2. Lumberjack Wolf: Normal wolf. Every Night, you may target a player to be checked for termites (seered). At the end of the night, you will learn that player's color and Day assignment.

If the Wolf Stump is eliminated, the Lumberjack Wolf may only use one of its abilities: wolf kill or seer.

Humans:
3. Human Stump
4. Human Stump
5. Human Stump
6. Human Stump
7. Human Stump
8. Termite-Infested Stump: Knows their role. When eliminated by town, is granted the ability to kill any other player as they die.

If the Termite-Infested Stump suspects they will be eliminated, they may PM the host with a fail-safe if they will not not be around at Day's end. A 2-hour Twilight window may be granted to submit their decision. They must choose a target, otherwise kitb will occur.

Win Conditions:
- Wolves win when all humans are dead or they have at least 50% of the voting power.
- Humans win when both wolves are dead.

Game Rules:
- D1 start.
- Instas are OFF. Phantoms are in play for anyone who does not submit a vote, however "no vote" can be an option. Wolves may also choose not to kill.
- Dead Stumps posting in chat do not can contribute to the vote count.
- Cardflips are OFF.
- Day phases will be 48 hours. Night phases will be 24 hours.

Balancing Questions:
! Is Day distribution too confusing? Should it be pre-determined Odd vs. Even Days instead of numbered? I figured numbered could be a little more controlled, than potentially having the chat blow up on Day 4 or something.
!! Should there not even be a Twilight window granted for the Termite-Infested Stump? Should it be 6 hours instead due to potential time zone differences?
!!! Does this setup feel too town-sided?

LOL.

I'll type more when im off work but you want to know something hilarious.

Firstly, and for the record, everything i said was true from being busy when most chatter was happening to not thinking deep on ANY of my decisions.

In fact, my thought process for N1:
"Hmm, who do I burn? I dont want to burn TZP, they said they were joining the game because they saw I was playing (and someone else), i'll choose uhhhh THC, because i think they know how to play the game well."
I proceed to choose them as soon as roles were sent out, and clearly state to MSF that i wanted to put my burn decision in before i forgot to later. That i would likely change it before phase change.

Then i totally forgot and did not change before phase change because i was busy. Haha...
So, frankly, there was little to no reasoning behind choosing THC. I feel bad that they get targeted so frequently!!

I also... like i said, have no recollection of previous games especially the most recent ones so i try to keep my opinions rather face value.


I am genuinely curious what about my actions played as wolfy enough to get voted because my mindset going into this game was to just play as vanilla as possible (no strategy, just be honest), and it get me to a lynch x).
I chose TZP D1 because no joke, TZP thought nearly the EXACT same way i did when choosing a candidate hahaha. I was like, "thats something i literally thought to myself... i wonder if they are the other wolf thinking like me."
The irony in that, alone...
After i died i kinda hoped they were the other wolf lol.

And someone (i forget who) hit the nail on the head when i said i was sticking to my guts at the end just to throw everyone into a bit of chaos. I knew my time was up, i honestly didnt want to fake claim so i thought, i hope me not claiming will either change votes or make everyone doubt everything. In a way, i got what i wanted 😂

But still upset i got lynched first ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ alas... if next game is simple enough for me to understand ill play! I didnt play last time because ill be fr i didnt understand the rock paper scissors thing 🙃 😅

Welcome back to TWG to me x)
Good luck y'all

I'm not going to take the responsibility to fake claim, that would be worst for me down the line. So no, i am not

[Oricorio]

Before reading back on posts to actually formulate proper responses, i feel like this game has become something where, from my perspective, situations out of my control have led to a couple folks narrowing down a choice to pick me. When i havent necessarily contributed to those reasons at all—more like a process of elimination so to speak.

Either extremely coincidental or it has become quite favorable for the wolves to jump on in.

When the game concludes i will likely inquire as to how you all do it when it comes to earning your place as town, because i feel like i havent contributed much (no outside PMs, no one else claiming). Definitely different from other TWG ive played in the past.

Oh also the meta-gaming side where you compare players to other games as a sort of citation, is very much out of my wheelhouse because i play this game for how it is; should i be reading that far into people?

Well, as time is running out, im glad BDS can get a sense for a little of this as i definitely am around to play and type when barely anyone else is, then am busy and tight on time when all the posts come flooding in..

If its any consolation as i dont doubt i will likely be lynched here, i appreciate the heavy analysis and breakdowns from TZP. Something i do not have the energy to do; especially, like i said before, if it involves "thinking of other games" because it has been months since i last played...
I wasnt strong on my vote for them, but will likely change due to other strong suspicions im picking up from BDS and TZP.

I will be frank, my inactivity and lack of lengthy explanation probably puts a target on my back more than i believe to see as fair, but at the same time everyone here plays the game way more often than i do. I get it..

As much as i would like to deep dive, time has gotten away from me and i will change my vote to Oricorio.
I thought them to be seer earlier primarily because their posts seemed like they were looking for info, thats it just a hunch. TZP has earned apass for now in my book because their thought process seems similar enough to mine on reads.

I have so little to go off this game, because it feels like nothing has happened for me haha. Perhaps this is why i dont play too often, idk. x)

Oh boy ok i gotta post my thoughts asap because i just got on my lunch ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Quick reply is as quick reply does, as im on a quick break here.

I totally forgot i got that distinction at the end of whatever game that was LOL.

I can see how to you all that shakes things up for me. In general, as an overarching statement with both IRL mafia games and sometimes this one, i take that passenger seat.
I love being the one who jumps in and proves a point or proves someone wrong when it becomes clear to ME, but its hard to do with this game being as social and overthinking as it is.
If that makes a little sense. Now that im talking more, at this point im speaking my mind for the sake of speaking, rather than bringing you with any clear or direct evidence.

By the sounds of it i am thinking of changing my vote around by phase change—just need to make it to my next break to read what TZP said about Xiao a little better.

Also interested in more about Ori from BDS.

[TZP]

You flatter me to think that I would take the extra time to do all that research prior to this game to come to some sort of conclusion like that haha.
Alas, i am not that well coordinated and am just trying to figure this out like the rest of you, only from a perspective of much inactivity between games.
If anything, I find it rather refreshing!
(But then i eventually get a target on my back because of it)

I will have to stick with my gut here and place a vote for TZP.

Aside from Ori, it's the only suspicion I have, including the play style dives into performance. I don't think at this moment any other person is striking much more of a flag, but anything can happen in 6 hours I suppose. Specs, your analysis is good, but idk what else I can say other than what I already have. Perhaps BDS is sliding too comfortably under everyone's radars?

I will do my best to check in before day change on my break at work. If anything further develops I will consider changing based on my previous analysis.

Oricorio, take the time you need! Hope everything does end up okay.

Can you also explain what LHF is?

I hope there will be more chatter today because tomorrow I will be at work when the day shift changes. I will likely pick a vote for someone tonight in the likely event I forget to post in time tomorrow.

Interested to hear more of your analysis, TZP.

Also Specs, if you post again in the morning.