Wolves:
Thiannon
FireArrow
Starting to work on the analysis when I'm on a computer.
Well, that's a shame. Great job to both of you!
To me it seems BlackDragonSlayer always gets lynched, no matter how angry he doesn't get... I could have sworn that he was a wolf just on that. At first when I was still playing I was thinking Thiannon because of how he said he "discussed with the wolves about wolfing him right away", and it never happened, then he slowly dropped from my mind...
WELP.
Really fun game, though. Congrats to both of you.
Bugger it bird, fank was right (somewhat)
A thia lynch would have been game (FA at that point you were a dead man walking) ( not killed in the night...)
Well, fear me wolves
Thoughts later
I didn't win so therefore this game was terrible and should be invalidated.
Quote from: fank009 on November 21, 2013, 11:11:13 AMA thia lynch would have been game (FA at that point you were a dead man walking) ( not killed in the night...)
Bollocks. You did play an excellent game, though. This game had some of the best human play I've seen in a long time. FA was also excellent. I'll comment further tonight if I have time.
Quote from: Waddle Bro on November 21, 2013, 09:39:10 AMWolves:
Thiannon
FireArrow
Starting to work on the analysis when I'm on a computer.
Well then.
I'm still glad I shot Bird. :P
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on November 21, 2013, 10:02:20 AMAt first when I was still playing I was thinking Thiannon because of how he said he "discussed with the wolves about wolfing him right away", and it never happened, then he slowly dropped from my mind...
I thought that at first, but then I decided that it would be ridiculous for him to keep on talking about that several phases into the game.
Quote from: fank009 on November 21, 2013, 11:11:13 AMBugger it bird, fank was right (somewhat)
A thia lynch would have been game (FA at that point you were a dead man walking) ( not killed in the night...)
Didn't Bird "confirm" FA...? If Thiannon had been lynched, Bird (or you, perhaps) might've been wolfed.
And, I just noticed the title! I was really disappointed how all the mechanics had to do with death; it seemed like a lazy way to try and encourage "activity" (which didn't really work too well, since askalice didn't fire his darts, and many of the other players involved in the mechanics were already somewhat-active).
Thinking FA was human was my key mistake. Things could have gone differently if I hadn't been fooled by him so completely! I guess that's the weakness of my "find human tells at the beginning," it sort of screws me over if a wolf who doesn't have a lot of experience is good enough to drop some human clues. Well, I'm not going to let it happen again!
I agree that the humans kicked ass in the final day phase, but it's a shame we let the first two sort of go to waste. The bombs, darts, and first two lynches were all handled abysmally, but I guess I'm partly to blame, since I was pretty unhelpful for both those phases.
Anyway, good game! I'd definitely be open to more games like this in the future as well. There's lots of other day phase mechanics that can be explore!
Thanks for hosting, Waddle.
First and Foremost. Fank overpowered, nerf plox.
Also, I agree with thia, the humans actually played REALLY well. The only reason we won was because when people were going over wolf partners, we were never considered as a serious option.
I think this game demonstrates an important weakness in 'partner theory'. Namely, that it's good at eliminating pairs, but not necessarily so good at differentiating among the rest. Thia and FA played an excellent wolf game by not having any visible connection with each other, and it definitely paid off.
Thx guise.
It's funny: at one point I was going to use Bird's affinity for partner theory against him in accusing him of being a wolf, since I remembered him being critical of that approach in a game back on LLF. Then I remembered that it was verm who had raised the points I was thinking of. (Spoilers: verm's good at TWG.)
This post game lacks trashing (/chucks game in bin)
i got wolfed hur hur hurr
Well, I have a few minutes this morning, so I'll post a few of my comments.
First off, my wolf strategy is not particularly sophisticated: I usually just act the way I think I would as a human. This has a number of obvious benefits, but it also has drawbacks, for example, if my partners look wolfy (I have to target them) or if everyone else looks human (I'm not about to make stuff up). I also don't really plan wolfings in advance or communicate all that much with my partners. I think FA and I did a nice job playing off each other this game despite all of these factors, though (and we actually did PM each other a fair bit).
Re: the missed wolfing. It was accidental, of course. I would never, ever miss a wolfing deliberately, and the fact Bird was reluctant to accept that was great because it meant I could hammer him on trying to invent implausible "wolf-behaviour" for me. It arose because of the weird phase-end: when Waddle put the game up around noon, I assumed, as usual, that the phase would end the next evening, not realizing he was on European time. FA and I exchanged a couple PMs the first day, culminating in a last exchange that night in which I asked him who he wanted to wolf. He sent me some suggestions, but I had a breakfast date the next morning and didn't have time to check NSM, and I didn't have Internet access again until that evening. By that point, of course, the night was over, FA likewise hadn't PMed, and we missed the wolfing.
Re: Nakah's reroll suggestion. I know he hasn't played in a while, but that was a pretty dirty move. It would be pretty unsportsmanlike for a TWC to miss the wolfing and then request a reroll as a wolf, so this gambit effectively confirmed him as a human, and we basically had to wolf him the next night. Future reroll requests by anyone should probably be PMed to the host (and CC'd to non-playing TWC). Additionally, I think replacements should probably be made at phase end. I'm kind of iffy on replacements in general; for one thing, I think they encourage inactivity by non-replacement players (you can sign up for a game you might not have time to play and even afford to be inactive knowing you'll be replaced). But switching them out during phase-end would work to eliminate this sort of game-structure-analysis problem in the future.
Re: Bird's phase extension request. Again, this essentially proved his humanity. Personally, I'm not a fan of pulling this stuff as a wolf. I "analyzed the syntax of Waddle's update" because dammit, if the humans are going to play dirty, so am I. And perhaps this is and should be part of the game. I think it's something that needs to be discussed, though. Again, Bird's request should have gone directly to Waddle, and, more generally, all game mechanic questions should probably be PMed to the host. It takes only marginally more effort to do so, and he can clarify them publicly if necessary.
Re: balance. The game was probably slightly wolf-sided, but certainly playable, and I agree that the mechanics did increase activity. I'd play a game like this again. Thanks for hosting, Waddle!
Re: the night-end rule. It's stupid. Change it.
Finally got my hands on a legit computer, so I'll get working on this post game, but most likely won't finish it this weekend!
Quote from: Thiannon on November 23, 2013, 04:36:40 AMmore generally, all game mechanic questions should probably be PMed to the host. It takes only marginally more effort to do so, and he can clarify them publicly if necessary.
This is something I really want to become as a rule.
thiannon 4 twc
Quote from: Thiannon on November 23, 2013, 04:36:40 AMAdditionally, I think replacements should probably be made at phase end. I'm kind of iffy on replacements in general; for one thing, I think they encourage inactivity by non-replacement players (you can sign up for a game you might not have time to play and even afford to be inactive knowing you'll be replaced). But switching them out during phase-end would work to eliminate this sort of game-structure-analysis problem in the future.
I thought this wasn't a replacement, but a mistake by the host. I think that Nakah had originally signed up before NocturneofShadow, but for some reason Waddle overlooked that and included Nocturne in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyway. Most of the time, replacements are done between phases.
QuoteRe: Bird's phase extension request. Again, this essentially proved his humanity. Personally, I'm not a fan of pulling this stuff as a wolf. I "analyzed the syntax of Waddle's update" because dammit, if the humans are going to play dirty, so am I. And perhaps this is and should be part of the game. I think it's something that needs to be discussed, though. Again, Bird's request should have gone directly to Waddle, and, more generally, all game mechanic questions should probably be PMed to the host. It takes only marginally more effort to do so, and he can clarify them publicly if necessary.
Hosts should just never give phase extensions in the first place (unless it's like a holiday or something). Problem solved. And game mechanic questions being PM'd to the host is a nice idea, but I don't think it's ever going to happen. If players are talking to one another in a chatroom, questions about the mechanics of the game are naturally going to arise, and I don't want to put artificial restrictions on whether they're allowed to publicly talk about them.
I think playing dirty is an integral part of TWG, and I think the list of rules would become incredibly long and unwieldy if the TWC tried to ban every tiny trick people use to look more human. I talked about this a bit in the most recent LLF TWG (http://llforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3504&start=280#p243944). As long as the tricks can be used by both sides, it's not an issue.
QuoteRe: the night-end rule. It's stupid. Change it.
I disagree.
You know what's even stupider than the night-end rule? Having knife-in-the-box after knife-in-the-box since the wolves have the same number of players as the humans. The wolves almost always win in those situations anyway, and if they don't then you're letting the outcome of the game depend on chance rather than gameplay. People can avoid games where it's beneficial not to wolf by starting with an odd number of players/forcing the wolves to wolf every night phase.