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NinSheetMusic => Help! => Topic started by: Ragster on July 26, 2012, 06:59:24 AM

Title: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Ragster on July 26, 2012, 06:59:24 AM
OK, the song I'm arranging has three important parts playing at one time. These parts should be played together, or else the song doesn't sound quite right. What would be the best way to put all three parts into the sheet and make it playable?

My idea was to put the three parts on three different staves, then let the player decided which part that they'd play. I tried putting it on a different layer on the same staff, but I don't think it looked very well (The part had to be brought up and octave in order to not have two of the same notes being played at one time). I don't know if that is sheet-quality correct or not.

There aren't enough parts to do a duet also. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Jompa on July 26, 2012, 08:23:48 AM
What song?
I think the layer solution would be the ok. As long as you don't intend them to be played together with one hand.
Also, you could just include two of the important parts, or just one, but it'd be easier to tell if I knew which song you're arranging. Something you could do, that I did with my solo arrangement of Route 228 from Pokemon DPP: You could have them play in turns - let the song more or less repeat, but have the melody change - first you'll play the first important part, THEN the next important part, THEN the last one.
Nice idea to put the three parts on three different staves, then let the player decide which part they'd play - It'd depend on the song, but in some cases I think that'd work!
Sounds like a difficult song to arrange for piano. Some songs just doesn't work - I tried to arrange Route 216 from Pokemon DPP once, but I just had to give up, cause of all the different parts playing at once - I couldn't decide on which one to choose - I guess I was in the same situation as you are now.
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Shadoninja on July 26, 2012, 08:50:47 AM
Layers would be a bad idea. Layers assume that everything is played at the same time.

Your best bet would be to use Ossia's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossia)
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Jompa on July 26, 2012, 08:54:19 AM
I agree, it's just - how the hell do you do that in Finale? I can't do that, I only have printmusic...
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: wariopiano on July 26, 2012, 09:16:58 AM
Is it the huffin n puffin from paper mario?
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Shadoninja on July 26, 2012, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Jompa on July 26, 2012, 08:54:19 AMI agree, it's just - how the hell do you do that in Finale? I can't do that, I only have printmusic...

There are two ways that I know to create ossias.

Graphically:

Make a new blank document and put in the notes you want to be in the ossia.
Export the staff using the graphics tool (http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/PrintMusic2011Win/PrintMusic_Left.htm?staff#CSHID=1%7CSkinName=NewWindow) OR print screen+paste to paint.
Import the staff into your original document and adjust systems to fit.

Using Staves:

Add a single new staff atop the right hand.
Add ossia notes where necessary
Hide empty staves. (http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/PrintMusic2011Win/PrintMusic_Left.htm?staff#CSHID=1%7CSkinName=NewWindow)
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Jompa on July 26, 2012, 09:55:28 AM
I think the graphically method would work perfectly for arrangement Ragster :) Good luck
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: JDMEK5 on July 26, 2012, 11:50:47 AM
Or you could just arrange more and make it a duet of some kind.. :P
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Jompa on July 26, 2012, 12:01:19 PM
Yeah, but he said it wouldn't fit as a duet.
Tell us the name of the song! Then it'd be easier to help!
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: JDMEK5 on July 26, 2012, 12:04:37 PM
Quote from: Jompa on July 26, 2012, 12:01:19 PMYeah, but he said it wouldn't fit as a duet.
Right. Missed that.
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Bespinben on July 26, 2012, 12:29:43 PM
I'm fairly good with managing songs with multiple parts. Could I take a look at it?
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Ragster on July 26, 2012, 03:10:22 PM
Woah, didn't expect to see so many replies.

The Ossia sounds like a good idea, the third part is pretty short so it would work great.

uuuhm this isn't the best quality music but it'll do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM6W_NEuEKo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM6W_NEuEKo)

A lot of non-sense going on on how they put it all together. Skip to 1:50, there's the triple threat.

Here's my arrangement (https://dl.dropbox.com/s/k5xk9iqz6lq00gd/The%20Sanctuary%20of%20Water%20and%20Ice.mus?dl=1)

Quote from: wariopiano on July 26, 2012, 09:16:58 AMIs it the huffin n puffin from paper mario?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that! I'll upload it here soon.
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: zezhyrule on July 26, 2012, 03:28:10 PM
I think what I would do in this case is cut down on the RH accompaniment a bit (it doesn't have to be the exact same throughout the entire piece)  so it's at least playable with two hands, but keep the three staves so it's easy to read. You can have more than one voice playing the same notes at the same time... It just might be kinda hard to bring the separate voices out.

(of course there are so many ways you could do this more simply but I'm just going off of your score you provided)
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Mayor Duffy on July 26, 2012, 06:33:26 PM
If it is three parts playing at the same time then three pianos?? If not then three different sheets. Layering three whole parts would be way too confusing, layering isn't meant to do that.
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: JDMEK5 on July 26, 2012, 06:58:12 PM
Three pianos won't work. There aren't enough parts through the rest of the song.
Three different sheets would be a waste of paper. If it has to be done by layering, so be it.
There's no other way. (At least as far as I can see)
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Bespinben on July 27, 2012, 01:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ragster on July 26, 2012, 03:10:22 PMWoah, didn't expect to see so many replies.
The Ossia sounds like a good idea, the third part is pretty short so it would work great.
uuuhm this isn't the best quality music but it'll do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM6W_NEuEKo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM6W_NEuEKo)
A lot of non-sense going on on how they put it all together. Skip to 1:50, there's the triple threat.
Here's my arrangement (https://dl.dropbox.com/s/k5xk9iqz6lq00gd/The%20Sanctuary%20of%20Water%20and%20Ice.mus?dl=1)
Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that! I'll upload it here soon.

The solution is through interplay between the hands the voice several parts. Below, separate layers are used to signify different parts, while cross-staff notation is employed to signify when a hand is to help with a part. Leaving playability issues up to the performer isn't acceptable - the performer is responsible for interpretation.

[N64/Dreamcast] Rayman 2: The Great Escape
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sanctuary of Water and Ice":
[MUS] (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35209091/Rayman%202%20-%20Sanctuary%20of%20Water%20and%20Ice.mus) [MIDI] (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35209091/Rayman%202%20-%20Sanctuary%20of%20Water%20and%20Ice.mid) [PDF] (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35209091/Rayman%202%20-%20Sanctuary%20of%20Water%20and%20Ice.pdf)
Title: Re: Can't choose which part is more important...
Post by: Ragster on July 27, 2012, 08:20:29 AM
Wow, and it looks to be playable. That's great, thanks!