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NinSheetMusic => Submission Center => Project Archive => Topic started by: Dekkadeci on May 31, 2020, 05:36:33 PM

Title: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on May 31, 2020, 05:36:33 PM
Here's my replacement thread for this project:

Full Challenger Replacements

Significant Edits
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on May 31, 2020, 05:45:11 PM
My main concerns about my "Battle with Meta Knight" replacement:

For those previously complaining about the bassline in Bars 13-18, I checked again today and it turns out I previously transcribed it one octave too high. I believe the repeated 16th notes are achievable as long as you switch fingers.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Static on June 16, 2020, 08:01:51 PM
Quote from: Dekkadeci on May 31, 2020, 05:45:11 PMMy main concerns about my "Battle with Meta Knight" replacement:
  • The slurs at the tops of Pages 3 and 4 either overlap with the header or need to be warped significantly in order to barely fit.
  • Playback of ties to notes where glissandos start does not work, at least on Finale Notepad. I have tried replacing the ties, and that did not fix things.
  • The glissando lines get in the way of accidentals, regardless of whether the word "gliss." is there.
  • I believe the tuplet notes in Bars 18-19 are actually all the same length in the original, although the current version is close enough and does not cross the barline.
  • I've currently kept the title as "Battle with Meta Knight" because some sources say that's the title (although not the GilvaSunner video I've linked as a source, which is why I'm concerned). The Kirby Super Star Ultra title is "Vs. Meta Knight" according to https://vgmdb.net/album/10970, but the KSSU version is subtly different from the KSS version in multiple places. I am currently unable to source KSS song titles.

For those previously complaining about the bassline in Bars 13-18, I checked again today and it turns out I previously transcribed it one octave too high. I believe the repeated 16th notes are achievable as long as you switch fingers.
For the things above:

Some other stuff:

Once these things are addressed I'll fix up the formatting for you. Nice arrangement by the way, this song is quite a pain to capture on just a piano, but I think you really nailed it here.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on June 17, 2020, 12:12:47 PM
Quote from: Static on June 16, 2020, 08:01:51 PMFor the things above:
  • Don't worry about all the formatting and spacing stuff, I can take care of that for you later.
  • Yeah that's an issue with any Finale version. It's less noticable when the gliss is a very long distance over a short period of time, but if it isn't, then you hear the tied note clearly rearticulated. You might want to consider shortening the lengths of the glissandi, but up to you.
  • Regarding m18-19, yes they are all the same length, which means that the triplet in m18 should be a 3:2.5 rhythm instead of 3:2 (and starting a bit earlier than beat 4)... That said, what you have is a close enough approximation, I think.
  • We have the Marx battle theme on site currently with the title "Marx's Theme", so it would probably be best to be consistent with that and title the sheet "Meta Knight's Theme".
  • The repeated 16ths are possible, though pretty demanding. I think it's fine to leave them in, since the performer can decide if they want to exclude some notes or not.

Some other stuff:
  • All those 16th notes/rests in m1-4 and 9-12 would look a lot cleaner and be easier to read if they were just staccato 8th notes.
  • Those 8th note octave hits like in m9 might sound better with the 5th in between, to give it some extra punch. Up to you though.
  • For m24, I think "ad lib." would be more appropriate than rubato. Rubato implies stretching the overall time (with both hands), but ad lib. tells the performer to play the specific melodic line more freely (which makes more sense bc it's a typical rock or jazz solo).
  • m24-31 LH: Beats 1-3 are beamed in 6/8, while the RH is beamed in 3/4... I would rewrite it like this, which not only matches the RH but removes all those staccatos and augmentation dots:
    (https://i.imgur.com/QUfOVMq.png)
  • m29 RH: Beat 1 sounds more like an 8th note triplet to me.

Once these things are addressed I'll fix up the formatting for you. Nice arrangement by the way, this song is quite a pain to capture on just a piano, but I think you really nailed it here.
Adjusted everything except m29 RH, which I've still found to start with 8th note-16th note-16th note after listening to the source at 75% and 50% speed, and the not-necessarily-needing-to-be-adjusted m18-19 and 8th note octave hits in m9, etc. M9's already tough enough to play at full speed.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
FF7-Fight on!
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on June 19, 2020, 10:00:06 PM
Adjusted my "Fight On!" edit; my comments are below:
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AMFF7-Fight on!
  • I don't think the gliss text on the glissando is nessicary, and it's really hard to read anyway, so I'd recommend removing it.
I figured out how to remove it on Musescore so the Finale version also has the text gone.
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • If this is 12/8, and everything is beamed like 2 6/8 measures, then syncopated quarters like the 2nd one in m10 should be split into 8ths tied to 8ths to better show the beat
Fixed that.
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • m19- first 2nd layer RH chord should be a 2nd - G+A and the G resolves down to the F, like you have it, on beat 4. Also in m25
Managed to pull that off for you; it sounds convincing enough.
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • Dropping the strings in m67-68 for the arpeggios is, imo, a terrible decision. You completely lose the resolution of that voice for some background elements. I'd highly recommend changing it.
Whenever I sing "Fight On!" (including before I made the first version of this edit), I actually preferentially sing the arpeggios. With that being said, I managed to figure out how to include the high strings while keeping most of the arpeggios (I dropped the least audible arpeggios). It definitely sounds cooler this way--good suggestion!
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • I'd recommend revisiting m53-56 again, this time using layers to incorporate all the strings and melody, because it's definitely doable.
I actually managed to pull off all the strings and melody in Bars 53-60. Now they sound even cooler!
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • I don't hear a change in rhythm on m22 b10-12 LH
You were right, so I fixed that.
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • Speaking of LH rhythms, I hear a few quarter+8th where you have dotted 8ths. Those are: m17 b7, m18 (all). Same for where this repeats.
The only time I heard quarter + 8th note in those places instead of dotted quarter notes were when I set the source videos to 25% speed. That gave me significant doubt that the quarter + 8ths are really there.
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • m32 b7-12 and the like need to be properly beamed, like m10. Same for m36
Fixed those, too.
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • m38, 42 - LH - b10-12 - I hear 3 8ths instead of quarter+8th
I managed to hear the three 8th notes, too (with a different source video). Turns out I had to correct the left-hand notes of Bar 42, Beats 10-12. (That last A note there sounds like it's scooped into in the original.)
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • m50, 58 - b7-12 the quarters here are an E, not an A. And beat 12 is a G, although on the other side of the A.
For Measure 50, I did hear both left-hand quarter notes there as E's, but I kept hearing Beat 12 as an A instead of a G, even when the music was at 50% or 25% speed. For Measure 58, I actually heard the 1st left-hand quarter note there as E and the 2nd left-hand quarter note as G. At least its Beat 12 was also a G.
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • m66 is similar, but b12 is a D to resolve into the C next measure
I heard the Beat 7 left-hand quarter note as E there, but I kept hearing Beats 10-12 left hand as B quarter note - A 8th note, resolving into a G next measure. (The C's are a new line on top of the G.)
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM
  • If this were me, I'd add notes left and right to the LH to make more than just a single note the entire song, because that's kind of boring. However, this isn't my sheet, so do what you want.
I tried to stick more closely to the Commander6 original score, which uses a single-note line for the left hand the entire way through, but I did find the A-B-C-D electric guitar line in Bars 17-18 and 23-24 to be so loud that it was worth including.

My biggest concern about my current score is the collision of triplet beams in Beats 10-12 of Bar 68. I've tried flipping the right-hand stems, but the resulting right-hand rest positioning (regardless of whether the rest goes above or below) looks even uglier on Musescore, IMO. Ideally, I'd also like each slur in Bars 67-68 to span all right-hand triplets in those bars.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Static on June 19, 2020, 11:06:12 PM
Quote from: Dekkadeci on June 17, 2020, 12:12:47 PMAdjusted everything except m29 RH, which I've still found to start with 8th note-16th note-16th note after listening to the source at 75% and 50% speed, and the not-necessarily-needing-to-be-adjusted m18-19 and 8th note octave hits in m9, etc. M9's already tough enough to play at full speed.
After listening again, I can hear that rhythm more clearly now, and that makes sense for those hits. The changes you made all look great! I went ahead and made some formatting edits to your sheet, including spacing, increasing the copyright info size, and removing the word "gliss" as per Maelstrom's suggestion. You can check out the new file here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S5DtsOCrmexE8MJIwtBsNqcQQhexE2hE/view?usp=sharing), and if you're fine with the changes, feel free to upload it to the folder. I approve.

Quote from: Dekkadeci on June 19, 2020, 10:00:06 PMI tried to stick more closely to the Commander6 original score, which uses a single-note line for the left hand the entire way through, but I did find the A-B-C-D electric guitar line in Bars 17-18 and 23-24 to be so loud that it was worth including.
Just chiming in to say there's not really a limit on how much you can change - if you want to make more large structural edits to the sheet you could (just change it to a challenge replacement). Feel free to go crazy with it.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on June 20, 2020, 01:29:16 PM
Quote from: Static on June 19, 2020, 11:06:12 PMAfter listening again, I can hear that rhythm more clearly now, and that makes sense for those hits. The changes you made all look great! I went ahead and made some formatting edits to your sheet, including spacing, increasing the copyright info size, and removing the word "gliss" as per Maelstrom's suggestion. You can check out the new file here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S5DtsOCrmexE8MJIwtBsNqcQQhexE2hE/view?usp=sharing), and if you're fine with the changes, feel free to upload it to the folder. I approve.
The only thing I did to your new file before uploading it into the folder is moving the "ad lib." indication in Bar 27 back to Bar 24, but shrunk to size 10 font (I assumed you moved the indication because of text size issues, but the wonky-rhythm right-hand line starts in Bar 24).

...I actually uploaded it into both the "Approved" and "Arranged" folders.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: Dekkadeci on June 20, 2020, 01:29:16 PM...I actually uploaded it into both the "Approved" and "Arranged" folders.
No need for that :P I removed the copy in the "Arranged" folder, leaving us with the "Approved" version as the one source.

Quote from: Dekkadeci on June 20, 2020, 01:29:16 PMThe only thing I did to your new file before uploading it into the folder is moving the "ad lib." indication in Bar 27 back to Bar 24, but shrunk to size 10 font (I assumed you moved the indication because of text size issues, but the wonky-rhythm right-hand line starts in Bar 24).
This should be above the right hand part since it applies to that voice (and there's also more room there).

Anyway, thanks for doing this one, we really need it! Aside from the above, I have a few more comments after taking a look. The main things I have are:
- LH rhythm in m. 1-23: Without the context of the original percussion, the left hand part loses its drive - the three notes per 5/4 bar aren't enough to really ground the rhythm especially in places like m. 5-8. One thing I would suggest trying is simply re-striking the low C on beat 2. This would emphasize the beat that the song is based on.
- Repeated C's in m. 13-18: Yes, they may be technically doable... but it's prohibitively difficult. You could easily have alternating C's between the upper and lower octave. Also, beat 5 should be not connected to beat 4 via a shared beam.
- Dynamics: The only dynamics here are a mp at the beginning/end and a mf at m. 24. You can do more to highlight contrasts between different parts. For example, there's no indication that the chords in m. 5-8 should be emphasized more than the high 8va line. They could also use a crescendo. Other things you might want to consider are making m. 13 louder, a crescendo in m. 19, and a forte in m. 32.

Other smaller things:
- There are some minor visual tweaks that would be nice - I can take care of them for you. These include editing the page margins (the top is really big), giving the gliss. in m. 18 more room
- Why isn't m. 28 RH all in one layer? Regardless, the last tie should be flipped downwards.
- For our ease of navigation, please make sure the file name reflects the track title. "Kirby Super Star - Meta Knight's Theme" would work nicely here.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on June 21, 2020, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PMThis should be above the right hand part since it applies to that voice (and there's also more room there).
Moved the "ad lib." direction to above the right-hand part of Bar 24.
Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM- LH rhythm in m. 1-23: Without the context of the original percussion, the left hand part loses its drive - the three notes per 5/4 bar aren't enough to really ground the rhythm especially in places like m. 5-8. One thing I would suggest trying is simply re-striking the low C on beat 2. This would emphasize the beat that the song is based on.
With bassline melodies like Bars 1-4, I'm really not a fan of splitting them into more notes, and the finer note resolution there is actually running 16th notes. Thus, I've only re-struck the C 2 octaves below Middle C on Beat 2 in Bars 5-8 and Bars 20-23. (The source actually does put a percussion beat on Beat 2 instead of Beat 2.5 like I would have thought from the Kirby: Planet Robobot remix.)
Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM- Repeated C's in m. 13-18: Yes, they may be technically doable... but it's prohibitively difficult. You could easily have alternating C's between the upper and lower octave. Also, beat 5 should be not connected to beat 4 via a shared beam.
Based on all those repeated 16th-note dyads and chords I've played in both hands at quarter note = 180 bpm, I really don't think the repeated C's (which can be played by different successive fingers instead of what I've done for the 16th-note chords) are prohibitively difficult. However, I have put in an easier version...but after testing on the piano, I've found that the B flat below Middle C sounds better than Low C (IMO) because of the lack of register change, replicating the original. The last note in each repeated-C segment has been replaced with A flat for ease of playing.

Broke the beams between Beats 4 and 5 in Bars 13-18, but I must warn that the default Musescore beaming put the beams there.
Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM- Dynamics: The only dynamics here are a mp at the beginning/end and a mf at m. 24. You can do more to highlight contrasts between different parts. For example, there's no indication that the chords in m. 5-8 should be emphasized more than the high 8va line. They could also use a crescendo. Other things you might want to consider are making m. 13 louder, a crescendo in m. 19, and a forte in m. 32.
I was worried that you updaters wouldn't support different dynamics for each hand, but your words are encouraging enough that I've put different dynamics between left and right hands whenever the high 8va line is there (e.g. Bars 1 and 9). Can you please make sure they work in playback?

Added some crescendos in Bars 5-8 and Bars 18-19. I don't hear Bar 13 as louder than Bar 12, though, so I didn't make Bar 13 louder. Also, after listening to Bars 24-32, I don't hear Bar 32 as louder than any of the others there, so I didn't put a forte there.

For all new dynamics, can you please improve their positions? I don't like the Bar 19 dynamic positions, for example.
Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PMOther smaller things:
- There are some minor visual tweaks that would be nice - I can take care of them for you. These include editing the page margins (the top is really big), giving the gliss. in m. 18 more room
You can definitely fix those for me. There are quite a lot of things I can't do with Finale Notepad (and I've been adjusting that file alone since I submitted this theme for replacements).
Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM- Why isn't m. 28 RH all in one layer? Regardless, the last tie should be flipped downwards.
Dunno how the right hand got pushed to Layer 2. I did manage to flip the tie downwards, though.
Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM- For our ease of navigation, please make sure the file name reflects the track title. "Kirby Super Star - Meta Knight's Theme" would work nicely here.
Changed the name of the file.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Latios212 on July 07, 2020, 03:51:56 PM
Okay, went ahead and made some edits!

Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM- LH rhythm in m. 1-23: Without the context of the original percussion, the left hand part loses its drive - the three notes per 5/4 bar aren't enough to really ground the rhythm especially in places like m. 5-8. One thing I would suggest trying is simply re-striking the low C on beat 2. This would emphasize the beat that the song is based on.
Quote from: Dekkadeci on June 21, 2020, 04:33:05 PMWith bassline melodies like Bars 1-4, I'm really not a fan of splitting them into more notes, and the finer note resolution there is actually running 16th notes. Thus, I've only re-struck the C 2 octaves below Middle C on Beat 2 in Bars 5-8 and Bars 20-23. (The source actually does put a percussion beat on Beat 2 instead of Beat 2.5 like I would have thought from the Kirby: Planet Robobot remix.)
Sure, that works since the other voices provide something of a rhythm in some places. Though would you be open to writing in beat 2 in m. 13-18 as well?

Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM- Repeated C's in m. 13-18: Yes, they may be technically doable... but it's prohibitively difficult. You could easily have alternating C's between the upper and lower octave. Also, beat 5 should be not connected to beat 4 via a shared beam.
Quote from: Dekkadeci on June 21, 2020, 04:33:05 PMBased on all those repeated 16th-note dyads and chords I've played in both hands at quarter note = 180 bpm, I really don't think the repeated C's (which can be played by different successive fingers instead of what I've done for the 16th-note chords) are prohibitively difficult. However, I have put in an easier version...but after testing on the piano, I've found that the B flat below Middle C sounds better than Low C (IMO) because of the lack of register change, replicating the original. The last note in each repeated-C segment has been replaced with A flat for ease of playing.
Oh, I like that a lot! :)

Quote from: Latios212 on June 20, 2020, 06:14:30 PM- Dynamics: The only dynamics here are a mp at the beginning/end and a mf at m. 24. You can do more to highlight contrasts between different parts. For example, there's no indication that the chords in m. 5-8 should be emphasized more than the high 8va line. They could also use a crescendo. Other things you might want to consider are making m. 13 louder, a crescendo in m. 19, and a forte in m. 32.
Quote from: Dekkadeci on June 21, 2020, 04:33:05 PMI was worried that you updaters wouldn't support different dynamics for each hand, but your words are encouraging enough that I've put different dynamics between left and right hands whenever the high 8va line is there (e.g. Bars 1 and 9). Can you please make sure they work in playback?
Visual clarity for the performer in the PDF is always the most important thing, so if that's what's intended by all means go ahead and write different dynamics for the hands when there's an important contrast. Let me know if the playback isn't satisfactory and I'll try to tweak it some more.

Aside from the above... I adjusted the layout to space things out a bit more evenly. A couple more things I would like to change (but didn't yet) are:
- At the end, the half rest would be better written as two quarter rests
- I think F# makes more sense than Gb in m. m. 30 RH (chromatically ascending to the G)
- Writing in beat 2 in the LH of m. 13-18 as well since the rhythm is mostly absent in the beginning of the measures there

Let me know if everything's all good (and if the above few changes are okay for me to make) before I accept!
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on July 07, 2020, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: Latios212 on July 07, 2020, 03:51:56 PMAside from the above... I adjusted the layout to space things out a bit more evenly. A couple more things I would like to change (but didn't yet) are:
- At the end, the half rest would be better written as two quarter rests
- I think F# makes more sense than Gb in m. m. 30 RH (chromatically ascending to the G)
- Writing in beat 2 in the LH of m. 13-18 as well since the rhythm is mostly absent in the beginning of the measures there

Let me know if everything's all good (and if the above few changes are okay for me to make) before I accept!
Yep, everything's all good, and you can make all those changes. Tested writing in Beat 2 of the LH of Bars 13-18 in Finale Notepad and it actually sounded fine.

(Neat fact I found while transcribing Bars 27-33: until the glissando, all notes there are found in the C blues scale with added flattened supertonic.)
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Maelstrom on July 07, 2020, 07:40:39 PM
Fight On!
Sorry to keep you waiting on this.
I really like how m67-68 AND M53-60 turned out. Great work.

> LH rhythms for m17 and 18, and m50-58
I'd like whoever checks this next to weigh in as well, because I still hear what I said. If they agree with you, then I'm fine with it.
Correction: the last note I hear in m66 RH is a B.
Here's what I hear there in full.  (https://i.fiery.me/gcsiJ.jpg)

I've been using an album I downloaded ages ago for my source, but the first result on youtube pulled up the same notes I hear just fine.

There's a really easy solution to bar 68; just move the staves further apart. You've got space on the page, so you might as well.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on July 07, 2020, 08:42:09 PM
Quote from: Maelstrom on July 07, 2020, 07:40:39 PMFight On!
Quote from: Maelstrom on July 07, 2020, 07:40:39 PMCorrection: the last note I hear in m66 RH is a B.
Here's what I hear there in full.  (https://i.fiery.me/gcsiJ.jpg)
Looked at the image and I hope you mean m66 LH.

Listened to the bassline of Bar 66 in the original, including at 75%, 50%, and 25% speed, and I still hear the A-A-A-A-E-A-B-A I put down in the LH of Bar 66.
Quote from: Maelstrom on July 07, 2020, 07:40:39 PMThere's a really easy solution to bar 68; just move the staves further apart. You've got space on the page, so you might as well.
Had to move the staves of the Musescore version further apart in Bar 68 and recreate the .mus from that, since despite https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2012Win/Content/Finale/Distances1.htm mentioning a "Staff tool", I can't find that tool in Finale Notepad.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Latios212 on July 08, 2020, 09:12:47 AM
Meta Knight's Theme

Quote from: Dekkadeci on July 07, 2020, 07:27:05 PMYep, everything's all good, and you can make all those changes. Tested writing in Beat 2 of the LH of Bars 13-18 in Finale Notepad and it actually sounded fine.

(Neat fact I found while transcribing Bars 27-33: until the glissando, all notes there are found in the C blues scale with added flattened supertonic.)
Sweet! Made those edits (also noticed that beat 2 in the RH of 13 would look better flipped) and am accepting now ^^
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: LeviR.star on July 08, 2020, 07:45:04 PM
I'm don't know if this has already been discussed, but I was just checking to see how you felt about the RH pattern from m. 1 - 4 used throughout the song. I know you simplified it rhythmically for the performers' sake, but Zeila's arrangement of the version from Kirby's Epic Yarn uses straight 16th notes throughout the whole measure; whether or not some of those notes were moved around for convenience, I do not know, I haven't checked. Just something to think about, this sheet looks and sounds awesome!
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on July 08, 2020, 07:53:46 PM
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 08, 2020, 07:45:04 PMI'm don't know if this has already been discussed, but I was just checking to see how you felt about the RH pattern from m. 1 - 4 used throughout the song. I know you simplified it rhythmically for the performers' sake, but Zeila's arrangement of the version from Kirby's Epic Yarn uses straight 16th notes throughout the whole measure; whether or not some of those notes were moved around for convenience, I do not know, I haven't checked. Just something to think about, this sheet looks and sounds awesome!
Assuming you mean my transcription of Meta Knight's theme, I personally have a hard time hearing in the original every RH note I skipped in Bars 1-4 and related. I've seen transcriptions from others with the rest of the 16th notes filled in, but I have a tough time verifying them from Kirby Super Star audio, even after I slow down the audio to 50% speed.

I think the Kirby's Epic Yarn version has significantly clearer 16th notes in those RH passages.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: LeviR.star on July 08, 2020, 08:11:54 PM
If you're having troubles, I've gone ahead and split, recorded, and linked that very section here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6ybg9xdxnvxtb9/those%20meta%20knight%20notes.mp3?dl=1) with only the notes from that particular channel, meaning if you can slow it down past 50% with AudioStretch or some other application, you can have a much easier time transcribing it.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Maelstrom on August 24, 2020, 02:05:32 PM
Quote from: Maelstrom on July 07, 2020, 07:40:39 PM> LH rhythms for m17 and 18, and m50-58
I'd like whoever checks this next to weigh in as well, because I still hear what I said. If they agree with you, then I'm fine with it.
Correction: the last note I hear in m66 RH is a B.
Here's what I hear there in full.  (https://i.fiery.me/gcsiJ.jpg)
My apologies to leave you hanging on this. If the next person looks at this and satisfactorily addresses this, I approve.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
Fight On!

So, some general LH things; I really think that you could spice up this arrangement by including some 5ths and/or octaves whenever there's notes just repeating for awhile. It really brings out that classic rock shuffle vibe, but I also just think its more fun to play. (And this is my own bias here, but writing stuff that emulates the drums is also really satisfying to hear and play imo). I know you're working with Commander6's arrangement as a framework, but don't feel like you can't experiment some more. You made a lot of improvements to the RH, I'd just personally like to see some more in the LH.
(My feedback above applies to the transcribed bass line as you have it, but feel free to replace it with other parts if you'd like)
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on August 30, 2020, 05:42:55 PM
I also tried https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG7DYLdNBx0 as a source with no stutter at the beginning.

Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PMFight On!
  • m37 RH: There should be a D above the C on the 2nd dotted quarter note.
Added.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m39 RH: On the 3rd dotted quarter note, there should be a D above the C, and the A should be a G.
I kept listening to M39 and I really never heard a D above that C, unlike M37, so I didn't add it. I prominently hear an A in that chord (even louder than any G), so I still kept it, but I felt the G was justified, so I added it.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m41 RH: There should be an E above the D on the 2nd dotted quarter note.
Added.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m43 RH: On the 3rd dotted quarter note, there should be an E above the D, and the B should be an A.
Similar logic to M39: due to what I hear there, I didn't add the E, kept the B, but added the A.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m55 RH, Layer 1: Whenever this simple syncopated figure shows up, the first note should be a bit shorter. I'd recommend just a quarter note followed by an 8th rest.
Done.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m18, 24 LH, Layer 2: The last dotted quarter note G should be a quarter note D (third line) followed by an 8th note G (first line).
Done.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m28 LH: The end of this measure should look like the rest of it (get rid of that middle note).
Done.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m38 LH: The last two 8th notes should be F and F# (below the staff).
Kept listening to those two 8th notes with both sources, even at 25% speed, and I kept hearing them as E and G instead of F and F#.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m42 LH: The last two 8th notes should be G and G# (first line).
Similarly to M38, I kept listening to those two 8th notes with both sources, even at 25% speed, and I kept hearing them as F# and A instead of G and G#.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m51, 60 LH: The bass has a cool pattern here that you might want to include instead of, or alongside, the guitar part you have now. Up to you.
I hope you mean M52 instead of M51. Listened to those measures in the original and decided to add the cool pattern, but unfortunately, its formatting is messed up in Finale Notepad, the last sharp is unnecessary but needed for playback, and a sharp and a note collide. These problems are in both M52 and M60 LH.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m57 LH: The 4th quarter note should be D (third line).
Done. Also corrected the rest of the LH in that measure.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m58 LH: The 2nd and 4th quarter notes should be E (third space).
Done.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m59 LH: The last two notes should be B (second line).
Kept listening to that measure with both sources, even at 25% speed, but I kept hearing the 2nd last note as an A, so only the last note was changed to a B.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m65 LH: The last two notes should be A (first space).
Kept listening to that measure with both sources, even at 25% speed, but I still hear both notes as G's.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m66 LH: The 2nd and 4th quarter notes should be E (third space); the last 8th note should be a C (second space). There is no B, contrary to Maelstrom's image.
Kept listening to that measure with both sources, including at 25% speed, and it turns out that I can't seem to hear the bass's version of that last 8th note at all. I made it a D since that was the loudest low note I could hear there this run. I changed the 2nd and 4th quarter notes to E, though.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • m68 LH: The last 3 notes should just be two notes: a quarter note and 8th note, both G#s (first line).
Done.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • In general, whenever you have that quarter note-8th note pattern in the LH, the quarter note should be played staccato. You could write them all in or use a simile or two, but they shouldn't all be normal length.
Managed to pull that off for the LH. I wrote them all in since some sections actually don't sound like they need the staccatos.
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
  • Page titles and numbers aren't all within the page margins, or aligned with each other.
  • Copyright text size is too small.
  • On Page 1, the composer/arranger info should be below the title; you can move the systems down and closer together to do this.
  • I can help you out with the formatting if you need it; just focus on the music first and I'll edit it at the end.
Sure, please help me with the formatting!
Quote from: Static on August 28, 2020, 03:18:09 PMSo, some general LH things; I really think that you could spice up this arrangement by including some 5ths and/or octaves whenever there's notes just repeating for awhile. It really brings out that classic rock shuffle vibe, but I also just think its more fun to play. (And this is my own bias here, but writing stuff that emulates the drums is also really satisfying to hear and play imo). I know you're working with Commander6's arrangement as a framework, but don't feel like you can't experiment some more. You made a lot of improvements to the RH, I'd just personally like to see some more in the LH.
(My feedback above applies to the transcribed bass line as you have it, but feel free to replace it with other parts if you'd like)
I keep hearing the single lines in the original instead of 5th and octave versions. I do believe a couple of the notes in the earlier versions were emulating drum hits (e.g. the early version of M28 LH).
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Static on August 30, 2020, 07:34:03 PM
Quote from: Dekkadeci on August 30, 2020, 05:42:55 PMI keep hearing the single lines in the original instead of 5th and octave versions. I do believe a couple of the notes in the earlier versions were emulating drum hits (e.g. the early version of M28 LH).
That is correct, I meant that you should feel free to add 5ths to give the LH some added punch if you wish to. It's purely an arrangement choice, not something directly transcribed. I'm referring specifically to m19-28, 37-51 (ignoring beat 4 on some measures), 53-55, 57-59, 61-63, and 65-66. Don't feel like you have to though, I just think it might spice up the arrangement.

After listening again, I'm hearing what you have now for most of the piece, except for m65-66, where I still hear the A's in 65 and the C in 66. Maybe someone else can take a look too.

Here's (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bqj9qRHKREpDQHuPv4neNcXJtTnVICrf/view?usp=sharing) the formatted file for you.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on August 30, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: Static on August 30, 2020, 07:34:03 PMHere's (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bqj9qRHKREpDQHuPv4neNcXJtTnVICrf/view?usp=sharing) the formatted file for you.
Put that file into the "Approved" Dropbox folder.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: mastersuperfan on August 30, 2020, 09:00:24 PM
For Fight On, I hear A's at the end of m65 and a B at the end of m66.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Dekkadeci on August 30, 2020, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: mastersuperfan on August 30, 2020, 09:00:24 PMFor Fight On, I hear A's at the end of m65 and a B at the end of m66.
Decided to switch to A's for the last 2 M65 LH notes and B for the last M66 LH note since these seem to be the most popular. However, I have misgivings about the first switch, as I clearly hear a drop in pitch at the 2nd last M65 bass note in the original in both versions, and the 3rd last M65 bass note in the original is an A.
Title: Re: Dekkadeci's Replacements
Post by: Static on August 31, 2020, 06:34:43 AM
Quote from: Dekkadeci on August 30, 2020, 10:36:51 PMDecided to switch to A's for the last 2 M65 LH notes and B for the last M66 LH note since these seem to be the most popular. However, I have misgivings about the first switch, as I clearly hear a drop in pitch at the 2nd last M65 bass note in the original in both versions, and the 3rd last M65 bass note in the original is an A.
I'm trying to hear this, both slowed down and raised up an octave, but it still sounds like A's to me... If you're fine keeping it as A's, I'll accept. I don't have anything else to say about this sheet, it looks great!

Oh yeah I also got rid of that duplicate C# in m52/60, for some reason it didn't work when I tried last time, but it should be gone now.
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