Submission Information:
Series: Undertale
Game: Deltarune
Console: PC
Title: Don't Forget
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: LeviR.star (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5007)
[attachment deleted by admin]
As per NSM rules, this is not a vocal score with piano accompaniment, but a piano solo; I've found that some online would rather take the easy way and arrange them separately, but that's not the case here. I wasn't entirely sure about the LH choices I had to make, so feel free to throw anything out there.
Some things to note:
- talk to me about capitals & punctuation in lyrics
- do we still need to credit Laura for the vocals?
- aaaaand anything else would be appreciated
I'd like to, instead of submitting a simple, "comfort zone" chiptune sheet for this slot, learn something with a sheet, so I'm open to any tips for future songs like these.
Quote from: LeviR.star on April 25, 2019, 08:20:00 PM- do we still need to credit Laura for the vocals?
The official OST (https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/album/deltarune-chapter-1-ost) says explicitly that this song is "arranged and performed by Laura Shigihara", so I would not only keep it, but change it to "Arrangement and Vocals by Laura Shigihara" (and also, you'd need to change your line to "Piano Arrangement by LeviR.Star)
Quote from: Yug_Guy on April 25, 2019, 08:30:35 PMThe official OST (https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/album/deltarune-chapter-1-ost) says explicitly that this song is "arranged and performed by Laura Shigihara", so I would not only keep it, but change it to "Arrangement and Vocals by Laura Shigihara" (and also, you'd need to change your line to "Piano Arrangement by LeviR.Star)
Oh, I hadn't seen that she also arranged it, thank you. I'll get to that eventually.
..s-since when did we credit the performers..?
..for sheet music?
..which is created purely to allow other people to perform the piece?
Given that she's stated to have arranged it, I'd assume she also wrote the lyrics (there's a decent possibility that Toby was also involved with that). You should credit this as "Arrangement and Lyrics by Laura Shigihara", or something along those lines.
Nice to see something non-chiptune sheet from you! (Not that the chiptune is bad, but variety is the spice of life or something.) Anyway, checking now...
-The chord in bar 4: I'm hearing E# G# Bn rather than E# Bn C#. Also the roll marking should come away from the sharp sign a bit to the left so it has more space.
-I'm not hearing the Bn in the first chord.
-Generally speaking at the moment we've got the piano part entirely in the left hand and the vocals in the right hand, which works in places but we could move some harmony to the right hand to give a more balanced texture. Particularly moments that I can see are:
The sus chord in bar 8 could be brought to the right hand like this:
Spoiler
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492809359961882625/572198110642831363/unknown.png
The rolled chord in bar 9 could be brought up to its original octave since the melody isn't moving there. (Put it in as another layer so that it can't be confused as a continuation of the melody, although the lyrics should help to avoid that anyway.)
The En in the chord in bar 11 could be brought up to its original octave underneath the melody Bn.
You could also try similar things for the chords in bar 2, 4 and the last chord of bar 8 but those are a little more fiddly to make work.
Quote from: LeviR.star on April 25, 2019, 08:20:00 PM- do we still need to credit Laura for the vocals?
Quote from: Yug_Guy on April 25, 2019, 08:30:35 PMThe official OST (https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/album/deltarune-chapter-1-ost) says explicitly that this song is "arranged and performed by Laura Shigihara", so I would not only keep it, but change it to "Arrangement and Vocals by Laura Shigihara" (and also, you'd need to change your line to "Piano Arrangement by LeviR.Star)
Quote from: WaluigiTime64 on April 25, 2019, 09:53:28 PM..s-since when did we credit the performers..?
..for sheet music?
..which is created purely to allow other people to perform the piece?
Given that she's stated to have arranged it, I'd assume she also wrote the lyrics (there's a decent possibility that Toby was also involved with that). You should credit this as "Arrangement and Lyrics by Laura Shigihara", or something along those lines.
NSM does not have any official policy on how this sort of thing should work, but my own personal method has always been (for the sake of simplicity) to group arrangers in with the composer and simply put (in this example)
'Composed by Toby Fox and Laura Shigihara
Arranged by LeviR.star'
but you can also do it in a more complicated way if you want to.
I can talk about punctuation and capitalization in lyrics!
Lyrics are punctuated the same way you would any other piece of text - group them into complete sentences and include periods, commas, and other markings as needed. Some lyrics aren't easily divisible into sentences in which case it's up to you to use your better judgement and decide where to split them up, similar to poetry. Capitalization is also much like poetry as it is common practice to punctuate the first letter of every line, though it's not unheard of to see punctuation based on sentences instead. Having accurate punctuation and capitalization in lyrics is really important in informing singers how to phrase the melody, especially when they're first learning the song. It's as important as accurate articulation marks in other instruments!
Something else to note is that the division of syllables doesn't follow normal grammatical rules and instead should be as clear as possible for the singer to read. This is a little difficult to get the hang of but in general any consonants that affect the pronunciation of a syllable should stay with that syllable. (Ex: "Mu-sic" is the normal hyphenation, but it's better to use "Mus-ic" because there is more than one way to pronounce "Mu" but "Mus" is almost always pronounced the same way). I'm still trying to get the hang of this myself and yours look pretty good, but a few changes I might suggest are "shad-ow" instead of "sha-dow" and "prom-ise" instead of "pro-mise".
I hope that was helpful, let me know if you have any questions!
Files fixed! Notes:
- since we don't know the official lyricist for the song, I just put "Composed by Toby 'Radiation' Fox" and "Arranged by Laura Shigihara" beneath it. We can look in the mean time to find out who wrote the lyrics, or I can maybe put "Written by Toby Fox", which isn't specific to music or lyrics
- I made the note adjustments Libera heard, and messed around a little with both staves playing the chords. I'll still appreciate any suggestions on how to continually adjust these parts
- thanks for the help, CNG! I didn't have a full understanding of it before, but that was very beneficial! If there are any other adjustments you'd make to my syllable division, I'll hear them :)
Wrong files, I think. :P
Quote from: Libera on April 29, 2019, 04:17:34 PMWrong files, I think. :P
Agh, that's what I get for submitting so many
Deltarune sheets...
Nice work, I think the notes and the voicings are a lot better now. Other stuff I've noticed from this edit though:
-Does piano need to be capitalised?
-The slur in the left hand of bar 8: I would move it so it's above those notes rather than below. I know that doesn't follow the usual rules for slurs, but it would make it look consistent with the other phrases elsewhere in the left hand (and I just think it looks a little odd as-is.)
-I'd adjust the roll marking on the chord in bar 9 so that it's further away from the accidental. The one in bar 4 is perfect now, so use that as a guideline. You could also adjust the roll marking in bar 2 so that it doesn't go below the chord but that's a little less important.
-The top is getting a little squished with the extra line in the arranger info so I'd adjust the spacing a little bit to get some more room up there (you have some room to move the staves a bit closer together which is where I'd get that space from.)
Haha, as others have said, very nice to see something like this from you! It looks great, too.
My feedback, in addition to Libera's:
- Main thing I would recommend after glancing at this is breaking the beams over eighth rests between phrases (that is, in m. 1, 2, 3, 6, and 11). Doing so better draws a boundary between the phrases without losing any rhythmic clarity.
- Yeah I don't think piano needs to be capitalized in the arranger info. Agreed with giving the text a bit more space there too.
- Layers - nicely done in most places but I would lower the eighth rest to mid-staff in m. 8 since it's clear where the lower layer is and what it's doing. Also either show the half rest in m. 11, or flip the melody for beats 3-4 back downwards. I would recommend the latter.
- Consider putting accents on the octaves in m. 11 since they're notably more powerful than the surrounding notes. However if you think that's overkill though for this soft piece that's okay.
- I'd also recommend moving the dynamics away from the lyrics just a bit more.
Quote from: Code_Name_Geek on April 29, 2019, 12:40:58 AMCapitalization is also much like poetry as it is common practice to punctuate the first letter of every line, though it's not unheard of to see punctuation based on sentences instead. Having accurate punctuation and capitalization in lyrics is really important in informing singers how to phrase the melody, especially when they're first learning the song. It's as important as accurate articulation marks in other instruments!
For what it's worth, you can see the official lyrics (https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/track/dont-forget) written out in verse form with each phrase capitalized, with no punctuation. Transcribing that as such would also help demarcate the phrases as mentioned above (in addition to my beaming suggestion above). (And thanks for the insight on lyrics, that was very helpful!)
Quote from: Latios212 on April 29, 2019, 06:49:12 PMFor what it's worth, you can see the official lyrics (https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/track/dont-forget) written out in verse form with each phrase capitalized, with no punctuation. Transcribing that as such would also help demarcate the phrases as mentioned above (in addition to my beaming suggestion above). (And thanks for the insight on lyrics, that was very helpful!)
Hm that's interesting! I've seen lyrics written like that in verse form before but less so in actual sheet music, although that may just be the sort of sheet music I'm used to reading.
I learned these guidelines from a vocal prof at my university who gave us an entire masterclass on how to make lyrics easier to read in our charts (which was really helpful!), so she had a lot of insight from the point of view of a performer. I'm glad I could pass it on!
Quote from: LeviR.star on April 29, 2019, 04:15:34 PM- thanks for the help, CNG! I didn't have a full understanding of it before, but that was very beneficial! If there are any other adjustments you'd make to my syllable division, I'll hear them :)
No problem, I'm glad I could help! The rest of it looks good to me - the only word that may need an adjustment is "places" but I'm honestly not sure what the best way to split that would be. It's probably fine the way you have it but I thought I'd mention it anyways.
Quote from: Code_Name_Geek on April 29, 2019, 08:13:34 PMHm that's interesting! I've seen lyrics written like that in verse form before but less so in actual sheet music, although that may just be the sort of sheet music I'm used to reading.
Ah take my comment with a grain of salt then - I just wanted to mainly point out the source of official lyrics; you're definitely more familiar with vocal music than I am :P
There's also a soft chord that fades in at the very beginning. Might I suggest turning the pickup measure into a full measure with that chord starting on beat 1, and the vocal melody coming in on beats 3+4? This is largely up to personal preference, but I think that that chord might be nice to have.
I initially thought it might not turn out so well to try and reproduce that fade-in, but now I've changed my mind and think a simple rolled chord at the beginning could work well. It sounds like C#-E-G-B.
Quote from: Libera on April 29, 2019, 04:45:45 PM-Does piano need to be capitalised?
Out of personal preference, I'd like for it to be capitalized.
Quote from: Latios212 on April 29, 2019, 06:49:12 PM- Consider putting accents on the octaves in m. 11 since they're notably more powerful than the surrounding notes.
I thought about this a little, but decided that they weren't right for a gentle song like this. Thank you, though.
Quote from: Code_Name_Geek on April 29, 2019, 08:13:34 PMthe only word that may need an adjustment is "places" but I'm honestly not sure what the best way to split that would be. It's probably fine the way you have it but I thought I'd mention it anyways.
Yea, that had me stuck, too. If anyone else thinks this should be changed, speak up.
^^ The above are the only suggestions I didn't incorporate; everything else is fixed.
A few other notes, though:
- do I need to move the m. 12 rests down to mid-stave?
- I decided to bring the rolled chord in m. 10 back down to the octave it was originally, as I think it's too drastic of an adjustment considering the chords are played in the LH's lower range for most of this arrangement
- is the G nat in m. 1 a G nat, or an Fx?
While I'm still open to LH chord adjustments, I believe this sheet is almost ready to go.
Wait for me, updaters!
Cool cool, reviewing:
Quote from: LeviR.star on May 11, 2019, 09:46:38 PMQuote from: Code_Name_Geek on April 29, 2019, 08:13:34 PMThe rest of it looks good to me - the only word that may need an adjustment is "places" but I'm honestly not sure what the best way to split that would be. It's probably fine the way you have it but I thought I'd mention it anyways.
Yea, that had me stuck, too. If anyone else thinks this should be changed, speak up.
I think it's correct the way you have it.
Quote from: LeviR.star on May 11, 2019, 09:46:38 PMA few other notes, though:
- do I need to move the m. 12 rests down to mid-stave?
- I decided to bring the rolled chord in m. 10 back down to the octave it was originally, as I think it's too drastic of an adjustment considering the chords are played in the LH's lower range for most of this arrangement
- is the G nat in m. 1 a G nat, or an Fx?
While I'm still open to LH chord adjustments, I believe this sheet is almost ready to go. Wait for me, updaters!
- Don't have to, but I think it would look better that way
- Works for me!
- Leave it as Gn. I think it's a C# half diminished chord and it makes the most sense as a stack of thirds (as opposed to having the odd intervals of E-Fx and Fx-B). However, I do think this chord should be an octave up; but if you lowered it intentionally to keep the LH in the lower registers that's fine I suppose.
All that said I think this is
good to go!
A courtesy sharp might be nice on the LH G in m2.
Since the first measure is no longer a two-beat pickup, the last measure should be four full beats instead of two. I'm also not totally sure why a double barline is needed at the beginning, but I figure you have some reason for it.
I had the double bar line just for the pickup. It's no longer needed now.
Could an updater please make these changes? I'm out of the house for most of today, so it would be appreciated.
Sure thing, no worries! Lowered those rests, removed the double barline, added a courtesy G#, filled out the last bar. Let me know if there are any issues.
But for now, good to go!
Great!
This submission has been accepted by Libera (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5291).
~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot